What's wrong with today's Rider?

[Tales]

The First and the Next were not very well received from what I heard though. As for me, it was a refreshing change from Den-O. But anyway, I dunno whehter the new gen fans being exposed to Den-O will like the old gen or they will just say that they are old geezers, the same term they use to insult us old school fans.

[*Jess♥]

oh damn, yeah V3 was in that wasn't he?

what was i think ing of then... was it kamen rider X ?

is he due for a movie?

I don't know about these things...

[Tales]

Yeah V3 was in The Next. The only thing that spoilt the stuff of the deviation into J-horror which I dun understand why the negative reaction?

either way until someone who can speak or understand Japanese could converse with a fan living in Japan to talk to us about this issue. This argument will be just throwing money into the sea, making no progress or signs of ending.

[Toku Warrior]

I would like to back this topic up a couple of pages for a sec. Now I'm not going to argue over what makes a Rider a Rider or about other things. A page or so ago it was mentioned that all the Heisei Era Riders from Agito to present had the title 'Masked Rider' under the hiro/kata titlage. Kuuga did not.

Well, it's safe to say that that part may also now be changing. Off all the 12 Heisei Riders, that's right I said 12 cuz I'm including G, only 10 have Masked Rider in english text in their titlage. Kuuga as we know does not and niether does W. I just noticed that if you look at W's title logo it will have the English translated titlage printed as 'Kamen Rider Double'.

Now since W's design is somewhat more remeniscent with the Showa Riders, like the eye piece designs and the return of the scarf, this new titlage is also a type of return. So maybe Japan is slowly trying to get back into that Showa spirit. This is just a thought.

[Tales]

That only time will tell my friend.

I still pray that W can reboot this franchise back on its feet. Tiga on the other hand is not so sure. He thinks that Toku will be destroyed by the very people who created it.

[Toku Warrior]

What better way to die than at the hands of your own creator?

[*Jess♥]

I get the strong feeling that W will change this franchise in a very definite way.

I don't know if it will be in the way you hope, but i look forward to it anyway. it will certainly be exciting to see something different.

[Tales]

The better way? hmm maybe it will save itself. ha ha getting a little philosophical, are we?

The only way to bring this debate to an end is perhaps to see if anyone here has a friend who speaks Japanese or lives in Japan. I think Kamen Rider itself has succumbed to some cultural changes in Japan today. Like say the preference for girly men for example.

[*Jess♥]

well i have said before, I talk to lycanthrope-bata sometimes on deviant art. but his english is not that good. if i were to ask him about kamen rider, I would probably be better off asking durendal to write it in japanese. that way we can get a definite answer. but i don't want to bug durendal about it. if he reads this thread and offers to help out in this respect, I would be happy to act as an intermediary.

just so you know, lycanthrope-bata does like old kamen rider, he has done a few art pieces with kamen rider black, zo, amazon, etc.

http://lycanthrope-bata.deviantart.com/art/kamenriders-109229624

[Tales]

Well go ahead. It's good to know what do the locals think.

[durendal]

I knew it. The moment someone mentions Japanese speakers my name gets thrown in. Well, I don't mind. As if its something new.

But I have to add to the comments regarding the riders. For one thing, Shoutaro Ishinomori is no longer around. I guess we can compare this to the star trek franchise. Imagine a star trek series not produced by Rodenbery. We had Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise. Out of the three, Voyager was the most successful (correct me if I'm wrong, but I only enjoyed voyager, and I haven't seen enterprise, but I've read about some controversy regarding its final episode).

This would be the same for the Masked Riders. Ishinomori is no longer around to supervise his branchild, of course there would be certain elements that his successors would not be able to recreate. Times change, and if you refuse to change with the times, then you will corrode when the times start to affect you. Change is a constant and is something that everyone must learn to accept. I say nay to old gen fans bashing the new gen fans, as this will bring disgrace to the honor that gives the old gen riders their strenght. And I say nay to new gen fans that bash the old gen fans, as where would the new gen fans be if not for the old gen fans.

As Jack Nicholson would say: "Can't we all just... get along?"

[Tales]

True but both sides have not been giving in I admit.

Basically some of us old school fans are just well telling the truth and the new school fans are not accepting the truth indeed. I am all for change just to tell ya guys. I am a G1 fan of Transformers but I admit that after Micheal Bay's version came along, I admit that the change is well acceptable. Becos the new Transformers seem more realistic in a real world lighting scenario which I as a CG artist grapple with very assignment.

[spectre555]

Well,I think the current pacing formula of Kamen Rider has a slight flaw really that caused seasons like Den-o,Faiz,Kiva and Kabuto to not be the best they can be.

From what ive noticed.......

Usually during the first few episodes of the series,its more for the Rider to flaunt off his powers.The Main Villians are mainly not seen on screen.

Thus, we would inevitablly be beating around the bush for a while.Now people wish there were more episodes in seasons like those.

If they cut down on the beating around the bush flaunting Rider Powers time, they would t least gain some time to develop the story better.

But I really think we need to know what do the Japanese think about this issue as a whole or the way they view toku in their country. Do they really care about toku? What is toku to them?

Edited August 20, 2009 by spectre555

[spectre555]

Okay, another thing i noticed

While Showa series were episodic, but the since the Villians were present, they had more screentime!

Plus, their schemes were more daring, and had more than one scheme.

[Tales]

Like for example?

[Tales]

well i have said before, I talk to lycanthrope-bata sometimes on deviant art. but his english is not that good. if i were to ask him about kamen rider, I would probably be better off asking durendal to write it in japanese. that way we can get a definite answer. but i don't want to bug durendal about it. if he reads this thread and offers to help out in this respect, I would be happy to act as an intermediary.

just so you know, lycanthrope-bata does like old kamen rider, he has done a few art pieces with kamen rider black, zo, amazon, etc.

http://lycanthrope-b...iders-109229624

Well Ryuki I think it would be nice to know what do Japanese think of Kamen Rider and are they aware of the current debate over the new and old Riders? So I think go ahead.

[*Jess♥]

ok but you need to write down exactly what you want me to ask and then we'll have to see if durendal would be so kind as to translate it for us.

[Tales]

Really? Thanks....

maybe I will drop durendal a PM later. I think adding Japanese opinion to the debate would be most ideal becos so far, it's the overseas fans that I have been seeing having this squabble. I wonder if the Japanese fans are having such conversations or are they having the same fandom wars as hot as ours?

but the "right" questions will be coming...

[Tales]

Hi Ryuki here are the questions I have for the Japanese fan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How do Japanese society view Kamen Rider??

Are there any older Japanese fans of Kamen Rider?

Are you aware that of overseas fans of Kamen Rider are having a big argument over the decreasing quality of Kamen Rider shows?

In the opinions of old school overseas fans, the older Kamen Ridersbefore Kamen Rider Den-O were better than the Riders after. They arethinking that Den-O's appearance has changed Kamen Rider completely andthe hero that most of us grew up with has become a shadow of its formerself. Many fans give up the fandom for good becos of Den-O

What do you think about it?

Related to the previous question, are some Japanese fans also having the same argument too?

if Toei decides to replace Kamen Rider 1 with Momotaros as the icon of Kamen Rider, how do you or your fellows fans react?

If you have friends in Japan who also like Kamen Rider ask them these questions.

[durendal]

Not really sure if these questions are appropriate, but oh well....

失礼な事をしますけど、

日本社会は仮面ライダーはどう思う?

歳上ファンがあるんですか?

仮面ライダーの減少質は海外のファンが大きな引数が知りますか?

海外歳上ファンの意見は、電王の前の仮面ライダーは電王の後のライダーと比べがもっと勝れていた。彼らは、電王の登場は仮面ライダーが完璧に変えたと思う、多くのファンが仮面ライダーを諦めるのは電王の所為です。

この事どう思う?

上記の質問の関係ですが、日本のファンはその事もあるんですか?

もし東映は仮面ライダー1呉が仮面ライダーのアイコンとしてモモタロスを変えて、ファンの反応はどうなる?

日本人のお友達は仮面ライダーも好きがあれば、この質問を彼らを聞きください。

[*Jess♥]

much appreciated Durendal.

I will send this message to lycanthrope.

[durendal]

How sad that Fujioka Hiroshi who played Kamen Rider Ichigo/Hongo Takeshi disapproves of Masked Rider Ryuki. But what's funny is that Ryuki was popular among Women, and most especially to single women who have never seen kamen Rider.

[Tales]

Thank Ryuki,

Hopefully he can get other Japanese fans too to answer those questions sorta like a poll or something. Then we can make fair and objective conclusions on why is Kamen Rider now is such a state.

[Toku Warrior]

How sad that Fujioka Hiroshi who played Kamen Rider Ichigo/Hongo Takeshi disapproves of Masked Rider Ryuki. But what's funny is that Ryuki was popular among Women, and most especially to single women who have never seen kamen Rider.

Where'd you hear that at? I'd like to know where you got that tidbit from.

[Tales]

Actually I would not be surprised. If you seen how masculine looking the older Riders are compared with the girly guys of today. In my opinion, the older Riders were "men" compared with the boys of today

If he dislikes Ryuki. I have no idea how he will look at Den-O.

Edited August 24, 2009 by Tales