IRONMAN

[*zeo]

Sorry, I know I'm probably sounding rude. Don't mean to be but I think you're missing some factors that would negate your concerns.

The exo-skeleton is based on the same idea as an insect's, who are also just bags of meat inside an exo-skeleton. The exo-skeleton is being designed to support the wearer.

So there are five things you are assuming...

1) That they are ever going to go faster than 45 MPH

2) That the exo-skeleton won't be designed to absorb those impacts.

3) That the human body can't be accelerated to faster than normal speed without banging.

4) That the only way to make a human run faster is to make them move faster.

5) That running motion won't solve the problem because your limbs don't just stop and reverse direction when running.

http://www.powerizerz.com/

Is an example of how human leg performance can be improved, add exo-muscular enhancement and a human can run a lot faster but still move limbs at the same rate.

Like the difference in speed between a top woman sprinter and a top man sprinter, the legs can move at the same speed but the taller man will run significantly faster because of the longer strides.

Never mind humans are capable of kicks up to 75 MPH, using just normal human strength.

The exo-skeleton will also not have the wearer just flopping around inside, like a prosthesis the body will be held within like a glove, especially for high speed models.

Every impact will be absorbed by the exoskeleton, including any impacts from the wearer, just like running on springs.

Also human endurance isn't so frail that we can't take some impacts for at least a short period of time.

Cause as of right now no one is planning any exo-armors to run any marathons, the speed boost is only for a quick dash.

Just figure the normal strain at running at human speed would be virtually completely removed or nearly so. So how fast would the armor have to go before the wearer experience the same level of strain as normal running on top of that?

A human body can produce 4 times the force needed to overcome our body weight, add force of gravity and every step during a run can induce over half a ton of force per running step, which your legs have to absorb.

But all this force is spread along the length of your legs and back and comes virtually entirely from hitting the ground.

The actual back and forth motion of your legs are free floating and they don't just stop on a dime and reverse. You limbs slow down and then accelerate in the opposite direction.

The same would occur with artificially enhanced running, in fact that was in the article when they said they were following nature design and instead of powering the legs throughout the motion they would let it swing freely just like our own legs.

Also consider armor technology is designed to spread impacts over as much of the body as possible, so every impact is divided by the surface area it is spread across, further weakening every impact.

Add all these factors together and for a short burst at least a human can be made to run very fast, and that's all they really need.

[Aranor]

I don't find you to be rude at all. And I appreciate all the facts you come up with.

Out of curiosity was that Frank Dux's kick at 75mph?

It is also known that a knees strike to ones chest can also deliver around 1100 psi or more depending on it the foe is in rest or being brough towards the knee. (Mui Tai)

I may be confusing myself a bit also....I did say the Ironman armor. So in a fully encased armor then yes the force of the armor moving the body will be spread over the entire joints. However in a model such as the HAL I believe my points to be valid. Having individual areas of connection between the body and armor.

What would you use for external armor?

http://www.liquidmetal.com has some nice material.

And the armor posted here http://www.isracast.com/article.aspx?id=28 seems impressive...though the articles seem to end in 2006 ...

[*zeo]

Think of it like your car suspension, the armor doesn't have to be right against you. Even a half inch space could add a lot of G's to how much force you can withstand by just slowing down the impact and giving your body more time to absorb the impact.

IronMan was always a bit unpractical with the form fitting armor, even the scene where he tested his boots for the first time at 10% and got body slammed into the angled ceiling wall behind him should have killed him.

The closest thing to realistic was when he fell through his ceiling wearing the Mark II and had to use an ice pack on his head afterward.

The tank hit definitely was unrealistic. It may not have been as powerful as say one of our Ambram Tank shells, which deliver about 19 tons of pure kinetic force. But that kind of impact would liquidate a typical human body by the force alone. So even if it wasn't a direct hit he should have been seriously hurt.

But he was just woozy and got right back up, not even brain bruishing.

Though the armor may be flexible and could act like a skin and move with the body to act like a body spring/skin. The comic version has features like that anyway.

Course IronMan doesn't run, he flies. So he avoids the whole running problem

And yes, the nano-material is the wave of the future for body armor. Eventually they should have adaptive armor that can be flexible for movement and instantly harden to absorb impacts and spread the force over the body.

It may also be noted the military is working on implants and genetic modifications. Like giving soldiers some of the abilities of animals to handle cold, hold breath longer, regenerate, etc.

For implants DARPA got a patent for grafting metal onto bone using a laser method that allows the metal to be bonded to bone without having to heat the metal. So no damage to surrounding tissue. So future soldiers could have metal reinforced bones.

Nanites in the blood could also help enhances regeneration and handling of wounds in battle further hardening future soldiers.

Not to mention the onboard computers giving HUD and a level of coordination unheard of before... They really got a lot of things planned.

P.S.> Frank Dux's kick was just over 72 MPH, but I'm not so sure if that was real or not since he has been investigated and his story doesn't seem 100%. He is a Martial Artist though and the speed is in line with what is possible based on performance of other martial artist.

A good kicker for example can kick a soccer ball over 80 MPH and I think the record was something like 132 MPH. Similar to top throwing speed, giving some idea of peak speed a human limb can move, though doing so repeatedly does put a lot of wear and tear and why pro athletes need so many operations.

[McAvoy]

Iron Man especially always has been unrealistic. The comic book version for the most part had form fitting armor. If you think about it, for the most part Iron Man can withstand impacts like super strength enhanced punches with relative ease. The movie Iron Man however, isn't as invulnerable and is far, far thicker. In fact, Iron Man's armor hardly ever scratches. But considering the movie Iron Man's armor not only stratches and dents (the extra thickness could explain impact absorbsion), shows, the armor is definitely inferior to the comics.

Then again, the Mk. II is the equivilant to the proto-Classic armor anyway.

BTW, I just saw it a few nights ago, which is strange for me because Iron Man was always my favorite comic book hero. It was probably my interest in Iron Man that got be into Guyver.

[*zeo]

Alternative to running... http://www.greencardesign.co.uk/site/it ... ws&subcat=

And... http://io9.com/391064/where-are-my-cybernetic-implants

Along with the present status of cold fusion research, http://physicsworld.com/blog/2008/05/co ... suc_1.html

Course if this guy has actually stumbled upon something then an Arc reactor may become a reality instead of a sci-fi prop.

Matrix, http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/0 ... 6B48984890

Luke Arm Update, http://gizmodo.com/394072/all-things-d- ... g-luke-arm

[Aranor]

Those are pretty cool. I like the motocrycle concept.

Here is something I stumbled on that sounds promising

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9900871-7.html

Here is another along the lines of the motorcycle concept

http://www.viddler.com/explore/billwarner35/videos/13/

[*zeo]

Hmm, well lets see both the Cold Fusion experiment and Ironman's arc used palladium....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium

http://chemistry.about.com/od/elementfa ... ladium.htm

Basic cold fusion theory is that since palladium can absorb about 900 times its volume in hyrdrogen at room temperature that the pressure within could be high enough to induce fusion.

However, though excess heat is detected and the heat level does seem well above what you could get from a chemical reaction. The lack of the usual byproducts of fusion and inconsistent heating, probably due to lack of purity in the experiments, is why cold fusion has been knocked down to pseudo science.

So mainstream scientists refuse to believe any form of fusion is going on, but the fact remains something is happening and it remains unexplained. Thus why cold fusion research just won't die.

Since Tony specifically used palladium in the construction of the Arc that we can say the writers of the movie also thought it was a real enough possibility for a super duper power source that wouldn't fry Tony in the process... Since normal hot fusion takes place at a million plus degrees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon-catalyzed_fusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_plasma_focus

[McAvoy]

I think today's movie goers would be more likely to believe that Iron Man is powered by some scifi super duper power source than a wall socket.

But it does show that Iron Man's power is something unique that only Tony Stark can make. It seems that in that universe, it more than possible to create a Iron Monger armor. Though instead of repulsors, it looks like he was firing rockets to fly.

Spoilers:

Someone told be at the end of the credits, there is something that might show what Iron Man 2 might be about. Since I am nowhere close to a theater right now, can someone shed some light on this?

[*zeo]

Another well known Marvel character meets Tony back at his home, black ops style, and asks if he'd be interested in joining a certain organization they plan to put together.

Also Tony does a cameo in the new Hulk movie, and he may be the one to build the new Captain America Shield.

[McAvoy]

I saw the cameo in one of the trailers on TV only once. I thought it a split trailer for both Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk. Then I read some of the reviews for it stating it is indeed Anthony Stark.

On a side note (sort of), I saw a nice photoshoped picture of what the future War Machine might look like. I'll see if I can find it again.

Here it is:

[Juggernought]

Definitely looks promising...gotta love that gatlin gun, good thing that helmet's got some kind of sound dampeners for when that thing starts to fire.

[McAvoy]

Keep in mind that this is a photoshoped picture. But considering that Stark has the Mk. II lying around chances are that it might look very close to Iron Man's Mk. III. Hell in the comics, there are two War Machine armors. One that Stark originally built and the one he built for Rhodes. War Machine was a combination of technology from his eariler armor and the NTU-150 armor.

[*zeo]

The interesting thing I'm wondering is how will the War Machine Armor be powered... The movie Ironman requires the Arc Reactor to power it but Tony makes that work by having it built into his chest, quite literally.

So how will Rhodes get his working? Going to have his own little operation or will the Reactor get miniturized enough so it can fit in the small space between the wearer and the Omni-Beam emitter?

On another note, been giving it some thought, and thing I've worked out how an Arc Reactor could actually work...

Basically if the Arc was basically using the Earth's EM field to focus and direct muons then it could create the conditions necessary for a cool fusion method called Muon-Catalyzed Fusion.

This basically makes fusion easier, and thus far less energy is needed to generate the fusion reaction.

Combine this with an aneutronic fusion reaction, which is basically a fusion reaction that doesn't produce neutrinos and thus avoid radiation problems. Virtually all energy produced can be converted directly into useful electrical energy.

The problem with such a fusion reaction is it takes far more energy to produce than neutron producing fusion reactions. But with Muon-Catalyzed Fusion reaction the energy requirements could become practical.

The problem with normal muon-catalyzed fusion is producing enough muons, since they are a short lived particle and it usually takes a nuclear reaction just to produce the muon but they are also produced naturally by cosmic rays hitting our atmosphere. So if they could be collected and directed into a fusion reaction then it could solve a big hurdle and could possibly even make the Arc Reactor possible...

[Aranor]

So when you gonna make us one

[*zeo]

You know, if I had the money to get the resources needed I would actually try.

Unfortunately I can't afford even the palladium, let alone construct the reactor chamber... But still fun to think about.

[McAvoy]

I got a shiny $5 bill. Does that help?

[*zeo]

Let's see, Tony used about 2 onces for the first Arc Reactor?

At a present cost of near $500 per once... $5 dollars would get me about 1/100 of an once

Which would pale in comparison to the cost of the room super conducting wires, custom containment chamber... and the initial power of ignition to get the whole thing started in the first place... Yup, not happening any time soon.

[Aranor]

Finally got to watch this. Wow. Very well done.

As for the war machine you suppose smaler versions of the arc reactor could be made? As such not so powerful but havine 3 or 4 embedded into the armor. Perhaps not so visible as Tony's.

I liked the concept of the pieces first put on opening to allow secondary pieces to interlock and be closed in lockign the armor tight.

[*zeo]

Smaller means you need better containment of the plasma, as there would be less room for error, but if you can manage that then it could be possible. It's just gets really hard to control the plasma precisely as you get smaller, which was probably one of the reasons only Tony was able to miniaturize the Arc Reactor in the movie and why the bad guy had to steal one from him.

Frankly Tony is going to have to do some miniaturization for the second movie anyway since his buddy has to become War Machine and I don't think he's going to stand still and let Tony put a hole in his chest to make room

Though War Machine is a bulkier armor, but then again Tony's Reactor had to double as a magnet to keep those shrapnel shards from reaching his heart. So removing that feature could shrink the thickness a bit.

Traditionally IronMan has power cells located throughout the armor, especially on the hips where many versions of the Armor had these Pod/discs power cells that he could also use as a bomb by overloading them and tossing them like grenades.

It would be interesting if he does put multiple Arc Reactors in the Armor, at the very least it would allow the armor to be used by someone else. Also it could serve as backup in case his primary fails.

Though having multiple fusion reactors does pose its dangers too, like T3 showed when certain fusion power cells were shown overloading and exploding But on the other hand the extra energy could be applied to plasma shields and made IronMan space travel worthy.

[guyverfanatic]

I loved the photoshopped War Machine picture. I hope we get to see him in Iron Man 2 and then a spin-off movie for himself!

[Aranor]

Judging from the line "Next time big guy." I would presume that is a hint snuck into the movie. But then again Mel Brooks also said "Let's hope we all meet again in Spaceballs 2 the soich for more money."

It would be kind of interesting since Marvel is placing key characters into select movies if they incorporate the hulk buster armor in the next one.....but then again perhaps too soon.

[*zeo]

Prototyping should get a lot easier soon...

Shapeways Allows You to Materialize Any 3D Object, Star Trek Style

Ultrasound to give feel to games

Energy Ball Turns Your Roof into a Wind Turbine Farm

[Aranor]

Now if only they could use that molding process with this stuff http://www.liquidmetal.com/

[*zeo]

Images of IRONMAN in 2nd Life

[guyverfanatic]

Images of IRONMAN in 2nd Life

What the hell...