Poll: Warrior Guyver vs. Warrior Guyver

[WarriorZoalord]

im no scientist but if jason had the time/knowledge to increase his power through dna manipulation...he wouldnt have to make much of a change would he? im sure even the smallest change can have an effect...and even if he did change his dna couldnt the matrix just change it back...thats if jason knows he has this abilitly and the time to use it...but couldnt the matrix just change him on the spot and instaantly power him up?

I doubt its an "On the spot" kind of thing. becasue I'm sure it would take time for the matrix to fully maximize his DNA the way he would want, and optimize the unit for the new powers.

[*zeo]

@Spartan Warlord

This has been discussed before, the problem is two fold.

1) Jason hates Chronos and would never willingly allow himself to be altered in any significant way. He's okay with using the power of his unit but sees that as external, like using a tool and with the Matrix he can always have the option to free himself of his unit.

2) Jason is afraid of losing his humanity, Zagam is good example of how bad that could get.

Jason is a good man but he knows he can become evil if he allows it, he doesn't need to meet Zagam to know it, and allowing himself to be altered runs the risk of both corrupting him and altering his personality.

W'Kar is a good example of how a unit could alter its host personality if it altered the host biology.

Not to mention Zagam is an example of an altered Jason, not being entirely human anymore. So imagine how much change would be required to truly give him power?

Besides, an ultimate Dreadnought would be a fic ending event.

[largo]

It would be like Dready becoming something a kin to a god?

[*zeo]

Pretty much, with enough power there would be very little beyond the reach and scope of his abilities.

Good enough reason to keep Jason just the way he is. :

[WarriorZoalord]

It would be like Dready becoming something a kin to a god?

In otherwords. Dready could probably kick Anubis's ass?

[guyverfanatic]

It would be like Dready becoming something a kin to a god?

In otherwords. Dready could probably kick Anubis's ass?

Anubis would be a mere fly to him.

[McAvoy]

Let's remember that chances are that the Matrix probably won't make him like a zoalord in that sense of the term. He would be similar but probably more geared towards maximum efficiency of power as a host for the unit.

Also, it has been my observation that things similar to this is hard to calculate. For example, a straight 200x Guyver Zoalord could be killed by Dreadnought with a 1/8 of the power. But it seems that the it isn't a matter of 200 x 100. But more like 200 x100/\2 or something... So if Dreadnought Zoalord would become a proto zoalord, his physical strength may be 150x at the base, 3,750x, but probably be around the 5,000x range. But his attacks would definitely be in the low gigaton range on his standard weaponry. But his more powerful weapons like the Matrix Bomb would be around the planetary killer range.

In other words, yes. Anubis would be bitch slapped by Dreadnought.

[WarriorZoalord]

*hears his brain break after reading that post.* A proto zoalord is only around guyver strength, just imagine what would happen if he could have the abilities of both a zoalord and bio-titan at the same time....

[Aranor]

As scary as those numbers are consider this. Zoalords are genetic beasts. As far as I know using the armor on them was not considered by the creators.

What if Jason allowed himself to be altered but not in a Zoalord fashion. Rather having his body become something similar to the armors organism. Basically his muscles become the organism material. (We have not seen an upper limit as to how much the organism can boost yet) Thus the host body, Jason, woul dbe able to feed the unit as much energy to boost from as the uni can draw........ Becoming a guyver boosted guyver organism.

Get rid of his digestive organs...he's not erally using them anyway...and give room for other things. Perhaps larger smasher cells, larger and stronger gravity orb etc.

[WarriorZoalord]

if he changes his body into a guyver organism, if its possible, wouldn't he just permanently merge with his unite and become something like Zygote?

[Aranor]

Not really. Zygote is just a sentient unit. Still using a human host to bond to.

[WarriorZoalord]

Not really. Zygote is just a sentient unit. Still using a human host to bond to.

But Zygote doesnt need a host, it only needs a host to get to full power.

[*zeo]

Zygote isn't a made up word, it basically means a life created from two others (parents). So the name literally describes what it is! :apt:

If Zygote was just like another unit then it would only be as powerful as any other standard unit but it's not!

Zygote is a 10x character and that power stems from the fact that it does not bond to its host in the same way as other units do.

In armor form it is literally a new and different life form, with the host and organism becoming one.

It's just that since it retains a CM that it can still reverse the merger and act like a normal unit but unlike a normal unit it can enhance itself to a much higher power level and can even produce lesser powered clones of itself.

[Aranor]

Right. And it does still bond with a host. So what I am saying is if Jason were to allow himself to be made up more like the guyver organism. Making more of a perfect bond and getting rid of more of the limiting human factor.

[WarriorZoalord]

Right. And it does still bond with a host. So what I am saying is if Jason were to allow himself to be made up more like the guyver organism. Making more of a perfect bond and getting rid of more of the limiting human factor.

but if he does this, if he made himself to be like a guyver organism, he May not have the ability to turn his unit off anymore, thus becoming like a Kavzar or something. Remember, we dont know what kinda changes happen to the Kavzar host when it gets its control crystal, because for 1. they seem to have no major anatomy. For all we know he'd basically become a warrior KAvzar, and since its only the human DNA that prevents the creators from controlling Guyvers, its possible him changing his DNA THAT much might make it so that the creators can control him.... Do you really want them access to the WG and Matrix techs?

[Aranor]

Not necesarrily true. Alkanphel resisted. And he was programmed to obey. Ones will power is a key factor as well.

Turning the unit off would be as simple as sending the gigantic away.

And I'm not saying make him 100% guyver organism. Simply certain parts like his muscle tissue and some organs. Keep enough human in him to allow him to keep his humanity.

[exscaped_pyscho]

This line of thought is a possibility, but an unlikley one. Jason isn't going to sacrifice his humanity for anything. He is proud of his humanity, and unwilling to loose it no matter what the cost maybe. Look at the situation he's in now, outnumbered and outclassed by the Grakken forces and yet he still won't allow the Matrix to do anything to his DNA. Quite simpley he's human and he's not going to sacrifice that anytime soon. I can't really blame him either. If we are nothing more than the sum of our DNA, then altering it would result in altering who we are. That isn't a bridge to cross lightley, because you might not be able to go back, you might not even want to go back. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutley. If you had the powers of a god, and were suddenly given the powers of an army of gods, would you return to the lesser power?

I think the biggest problem people have when understanding Jason's desire to remain human, is that they're not thinking about it in the right context. Would anyone give up their humanity for security, for the ability to lay down your enemies and rise above everyone else? Would you still be able to define right from wrong without your humanity to guide you? The quest for power can lead to some very dark results. Look at the game God of War, the character Kratios lost his humanity in his quest for power and become nothing more than a beast bend on the destruction of anything that crossed his path. Or more close to home look what happened to Greg when he desired more power, he became Anubis. One Anubis is enough, we don't need another running around.

The fact is altering Jason's DNA on any level is a very slippery slop. Once it's started it's very easy to loose you footing and go for one hell've ride. But in the end, when the ride's over, what'd be left? Within Jason is the capacity to do horrorible, horrorible things just like the rest of us. The only difference is Jason's destructive abilities can litterly eradicate the entire human race. Jason knows this, and in my opinion he fears himself more than anything else in the universe. If I were in his shoes I know I would. The best way to fight temptation is to avoid it all together.

[Aranor]

God of War is perhaps not th ebest analogy. Kratos was actually bent of destroying the one who gave him the power. That which he recieved in the end was never of his asking. (Haven't played second one yet.)

The will to remain human is one thing. Being a sole surviving human is another. I agree keeping him human is what keep s his character interesting. What I am suggesting, is an alternative to Zoanoiding.

Who knows, perhaps the second matrix has had time to repair itself with all this going on.......

[McAvoy]

The fact is altering Jason's DNA on any level is a very slippery slop. Once it's started it's very easy to loose you footing and go for one hell've ride. But in the end, when the ride's over, what'd be left? Within Jason is the capacity to do horrorible, horrorible things just like the rest of us. The only difference is Jason's destructive abilities can litterly eradicate the entire human race. Jason knows this, and in my opinion he fears himself more than anything else in the universe. If I were in his shoes I know I would. The best way to fight temptation is to avoid it all together.

That is perhaps the best explanation for why Jason may never become more than what he is right now. He fears he may become even more 'evil' than Chronos by allowing himself to become even more powerful. Whether that comes from a slight altering of his DNA making him from 25x to 50x. Or letting it all loose, and becoming a 10,000x god (25x times 40x)