HSL energy/Hyperspace beings

[Weltall2]

Okay, as we all know WG use HSL energy to power their units. Further there are also beings who live in Hyperspace like the Kreegen. So here is my question, would HS beings be upset/angry at other races using energy from their domain? This is serious so lets not joke.

I mean the Kreegen are miffed that dready is time traveling. So wouldn't their be HS races angered by someone syphoning energy from HS. I bring this up as diferent dimensions have races of differnet temperments, like the creators.

[*zeo]

Possibly, though the energy is infinite it would be more likely they would be disturbed by the disturbance to their reality by such intrusion than the energy draining itself.

Like the Kreegon, who are mainly upset about WG upsetting the balance to the multiverse.

The normal Guyver unit also syphons energy from the boost dimension through the gravity control orb as well as when the unit activates.

The HSL is really just the same system on Turbo.

[largo]

Yah well if some one came in to my home and started using the hot water I'd be pretty p'd off. So wouldn't it be the same with some one draining energy from hyperspace.

[*zeo]

It'll be more like you're floating in the pool, minding your own business and soaking in the rays, when suddenly someone splashes you.

Everything is pretty much the same as before except you have been disturbed.

[largo]

Yah and that would totally tick me off.

[Weltall2]

the intrusion factor is what I was going for, actually. I just could not find the right words.

On another note. Hasn't W'kar messed with the fabric of the universe as well (we are talking pre-Anubis) without the Kregens blessing, and didn't he do the same thing as Dreadnought. I mean to me it sounds like the Kreegen are playing favorites. I mean sure Dreadnought can travel anywhere, any place, and any time; but isn't that irrelevent. Dready as last we saw hasn't changed the past that many times, and at this point if he had to go back in time I sincerly doubt it would be a long trip.

I know the Kreegen mentioned that dreadnought will end up time traveling more and more, but the fact there are beings other than Dready breaking that rule, should be taken into account.

[W'Kar]

The Kregen have also mentioned that they have other 'Operatives' out in the universe. It is in all like minded possibility that the Kregen operatives are dealing with other 'Criminals' of time.

Plus, the Kregen have a vested interest in W'Kar, unlike Dreadnought who they seem to think of as a element of chaos whose actions caused one of the largest temporal paradoxes in existance, including forcing other dimensions to seal off that dimension (though it was for the reason of the Guyver Zoalord, that doesn't mean Warrior Guyvers involvement is negligible).

Also, remember, lies are prevalant. Just because someone says something doesn't mean it should be taken as truth. It's really easy to lie to someone who doesn't know what your talking about in the first place.

On the note of HSL, I think it would be like someone walking into your house and breathing your air. Can you really get mad at someone who did that? Do you plan on running out any time soon?

[largo]

But Allen they still entered their house without permission that is still a no go.

[*zeo]

I know the Kreegen mentioned that dreadnought will end up time traveling more and more, but the fact there are beings other than Dready breaking that rule, should be taken into account.

Ah, but there is a significant difference. Jason is the only one who actually altered the history of his universe.

Though it was the Guyver Zoalord that made it possible, it was still his actions that caused the chain of events.

Basically think what it would be like to come home and find that your house has been turned into abstract art.

The Guyver Zoalord was suppose to destroy the Earth in that reality!

In comparison W'Kar time traveled by going to alternate realities, avoiding such paradoxes, which is how he got his brother back from the dead, etc.

So Jason is the only one who caused an actual paradox event rather than just mix and matching realities.

Also Jason's time travel caused other paradoxial events, such as allowing CG to travel to the past from the future. Causing additional ripples.

Which is why the Kregan are so alarmed and why they have difficulty even accessing the WG universe while they have no such problem accessing other realities like the GWOTG universe.

[Juggernought]

I think the kreegen have a bigger fish to fry in the form of anubis. Now that he has zagam, accessing any reality and even the dimension the kreegen inhabits is that much more easier. Just because they are more advanced don't mean they can say whats what

[Weltall2]

But doesn't the barrier have more to do with WG2's creators than Jasons actions. I dont know it seems to me the kreegen are nitpicking. I mean Jason cant be the only one breaking the rules. In addition who elected the kreegen as the ultimate authority on temporal damage. I mean the creators have said they think time itself is alive, and will work to fix any damage infilted. Further the comment 'time itself' is a singular phrase, so that to me indicates a single entity rather than a race of people. Also the W'kar element itself is more of a threat than Jasons limited temporal jumps. While we are on that track let us not that Jason is not changing the past every day. Jason just like anyone else knows changing the past is a dangerous thing to do. Also he has been forced to time travel more than once, so I really don't get the Kreegens outrage.

Here is something else to chew on, could the kreegens interference with other dimension be considered a breach in itself?

[*zeo]

Though true Anubis and Zagam can potentially cause trouble to the multiverse the fact remains neither of them have yet done anything to really threaten the Multiverse.

Remember to keep things in perspective. To the Kreegen we're like ants, we can do whatever we want to our reality and it will make no difference to them. Sure we can cause some trouble but usually nothing they can't handle.

This compared to what Jason did which is equivalent to having a fire breathing bug in your house setting things on fire where ever it goes. They can't really ignore him.

As for time... Saying time is alive in no way means it's singular anymore than saying a planet is alive. Just because a planet is alive doesn't mean there aren't others, the same with time.

It's only singular if you live within/on that time/planet. Cause then you are referencing what you are experiencing.

But the Multiverse is full of different universes/realities. But like cells in a body each one helps makes up the whole which is the multiverse.

So to the Kreegen they see what is happening to the WG universe like a cancerous cell. It's not doing what it's suppose to and it is starting to effect its environment.

While the Barrier is like a cyst, protecting the rest of the multiverse from the rogue universe.

The Kreegen themselves are higher dimensional beings. Their universe is the multiverse. What they do is to preserve the status quo. No one needed to elect them, they are simply preserving where they live and only deal with things that effect them.

It's basically like coming home and finding your furniture had been moved around by some kid and you try to put everything back the way it was but it can never be exactly the way it was.

Now here comes Jason who not only time traveled but caused a major paradox. We're not talking about anything minor, we're talking galactic scale paradox!!!

The closest any other character came to that was Anubis, who as the Kreegen have said should not have been created. But even Anubis has not Altered history and remember the Kreegen partly blame Jason for Anubis creation.

Basically, for just the WG universe, if the Guyver Zoalord had not been stopped he would have destroyed the Earth (which means the last couple million years of human history would never have happened since there would have been no Earth for it to happen on)

And then GZ would have moved on to hunt down and destroy all of the Creators throughout the universe and any other world he happened upon until he had reshaped the universe and set himself up as the only god.

Getting the picture? The WG universe as it exists now should not even exist.

And it was not just one time paradox, Jason himself is a paradox. Remember he came from a future that should never had existed, which means there was a previous time paradox event that created Jason's time line and he's the one that preserved it.

Which measn the WG universe is full of overlapping time paradoxes that ripple out throughout the entire galaxy. And that Jason is the nexus of that temporal paradox storm.

To the Kreegen it's like coming home and finding a hole in the floor where the TV used to be and the hole is covered in razaor sharp barbed wires. There's no way for them to even touch it.

Which is why they had to send W'Kar in, they have no power in the WG universe.

The Kreegen aren't bothered by the Barrier itself, the WG2 universe Creators created the barrier to protect their universe from the Guyver Zoalord. Thus it was created because of the original WG Time Line.

As for the W'Kar element, it's a natural part of the multiverse. What Jason has done is not.

[Weltall2]

Okay so the W'kar element is natural. I still think W'Kar has greater potential to scew up and or destroy the multivers than Jason ever could dream of. I really don't see the difference aside from the whole time war paradox/paradox's I haven't really noticed Jason Time taveling all that much. Also Jason creating Anubis seems to be a conveinent excuse for the kreegen, Greg wasn't playing with a full deck since he obtained the unit-W. Personally I think the Kreegen should be elated Jason is such a level headed individual. Further it seems Jason is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Adduitionally the kreegen are not blameless in this instance, their hypocrisy is pretty substatial. W'kar even though he is not damageing the mutiverse has done the exact same thing Jason did. I also don't believe they can really know for sure that Jasons intervention may not be a blessing in disguise. It just seems to be a double stadard Greg can skate by and slip around the rules, and Jason does the same and gets the shaft.

No w the kreegen have sent Greg as an asssasin for Jason, and making jason an enemy is about as samrt as making Greg an enemy.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

Since the infraction all started back with the GZ war, I think the what the underlieing message is is that because a supposed to happen calamity was avoided, it gave birth to individuals who can cause another ie a Matrix Enhanced Warrior Guyver (we all know that wasn't supposed to happen) and how many other Matrix Enhanced beings since 7DOH. Now Jason isn't the only one to contend with. Now there will be more ants breathing fire in the Kreegen's house all willy-nilly like and I'll bet my tukis that they will give less than a nevermind then Jason did. If anything, if I was the Kreegen, I would try to enlist Jason's help in trying to maintain the status quo instead of trying to kill him off. Quick question concerning him as a paradox, if he was to die doesn't that unravel the paradoxs he wrought. Being that he is the nexus of them all, wouldn't that unravel some serious weavings in the multiverse in a oh not so good manner. Are the Kreegen acting more out of Pride and Fear then anything else. I mean, based on intentions and abilities alone, Allen (as he a masses more and more power, nvm a evil Jason((the originator of all the Kreegens problems from jump street)) has Jason beat by a few AU's if you ask me. Forget who's following the rules, I'd be more worried about who can do the most damage when they do break the rules, in my opinion.

[*zeo]

Mostly correct Kamui de' Tempest.

Jason may have saved his own reality but he has caused serious damage to the multiverse doing so.

This would be like curing someone of a disease just so they could become a plague carrier for everyone else.

Original time line Jason never existed, which means there was an original time war event that created Jason's time line. But like the Creators said time would heal itself and Jason's time line would have ceased to exist and the time line would have returned to its original state.

But then Jason went back and preserved the paradox making him the center of the new reality. And making the paradox perminent.

And lets make this clear, W'Kar has never re-written history. I repeat Jason is the only one who has ever done this!!!

Like Greg's brother wasn't resurrected from the dead, Greg got him back from another reality in which it was Greg who died instead of his brother. No paradox was ever created by Greg. The Fighter Guyver II armor is actually Greg's alternate's armor put on his Brother and given Mark II tech upgrade.

Just like how Jason got Fiona back!

True time travel is normally impossible, it's impossible because its not suppose to happen. W'Kar and the others have never truly time traveled, just traveled to different realities.

But because of the Guyver Zoalord incident it became possible for Jason to alter his time line history, creating the paradox.

To the Multiverse this is like turning a part of itself inside out. The WG universe has been so disturbed by this event that the Kreegen can no longer access the WG reality. Like it was no longer really part of the multiverse.

Note the Kreegen never had such problems with any reality W"Kar had been to.

Let's also realize that as higher dimensional beings the Kreegen can see time very differently from the way we do. And they can see that the damage Jason will conitnue to be a threat.

Though true the Kreegen aren't gods and so aren't perfect and can't know everything. They are acting for what they believe is the best interest of the multiverse.

So far the barrier is containing the damage but even a short trip to W'Kar's reality caused Anubis, a being as Weltall2 correctly points out can potentially effect many realities and maybe the Multiverse itself.

Also note the Kreegen want Jason dead so they can not only stop the damage but repair it as well. Which they can't do now as long as Jason lives and the paradox he created continues to spread.

As to who could cause more damage, hands down it's Jason.

Reason being, whatever Anubis does the multiverse will still exist (all he wants to do is conquer it), but what Jason is doing can potentially destroy it (as in making it unlivable)

Really, if you had a choice between a conqueror and the plague, which would you choose?

[Juggernought]

Ah, but how could they send the assassin for Jason, that being his one time friend Derek, a unit, even though it is powerful, when jason could so easily destroy him. Granted they also sent Greg as a back up but not even he is sure if he wants jason dead.

[Tyranthrax]

First off, I do believe it's KREGEN and not KREEGEN. If you upload one of Allen's fan-fics, hold Ctrl + F and type in Kreegen, you won't find anything. Kregen though, does pop up.

Second: And lets make this clear, W'Kar has never re-written history. I repeat Jason is the only one who has ever done this!!!

Technically, Jason did NOT re-write history, because it was someone else who sent him back in time, saying he had to. History already said that Jason went back in time to defeat the Guyver Zoalord; Jason himself was just the pawn who defeated GZ, not the one that sent himself back to fight it in the first place.

For Jason to even exist, he would have already had to have gone into the past and beat the Guyver Zoalord, just so his reality could exist letting him be born and end up with the WG. But, for him to have first gone into the past, he again already would have had to so he could first exist. Thus, it must have been through someone else's intervention for Jason's first appearance, since he supposedly shouldn't exist at all.

The only way Jason would have FIRST been able to defeat the GZ is if his reality WAS supposed to exist, thus allowing Jason to be sent back in time to ensure his reality's continued survival.

So yeah, if anything, Jason is just a pawn playing his part so that the correct reality WILL exist. I believe it's the Matrix-created barrier itself preventing the Kregen from accessing Jason's universe, and because he himself is merged with a Matrix they think he's the cause of it.

Which would go to show the Kregen are a very foolish, unattentive, hypocritical and mistake-making species. They really seem like a bunch of kids with power to me, and now that things are ****ing up they're trying to fix it but are too dumb to know how, so they just point fingers and blame others.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

I beg to differ. The whole thing of which came first Jason or the GZ war is pretty mute. The fact that Jason went back in time to facilitate the birth of this time line is pretty evident which is why it's a paradox. Which cam first the chicken or the egg? Think of Time as a a straight line up into the GZ war. At that point the line of time got tangled into ,oh lets say, a knot. Being that the knot was made due to Jason going back, instead of working its way out, it instead went off on a tangent into the WG universe. Doing thus, validifies and enables the action of Jason going back to be true, hence the pardox. Maybe Jason , wether directly or indirectly, has become a temporal anomaly, a proverbial stone causing ripples in the pond.

[largo]

That's nice and all if you think time is stirght and all but it isn't it is actually curved like every thing else in the universe. Also for those of you out there that don't know this I'll try to explain when you look at something that appears to be a stright line is actually a curve and an increadibly tiny degree. Main I wish i'd paid more attention during my physics class to explain better then that but well Zeo1234 will most likely be able to explain it better then me.

Back to what I was saying I phyist I can't remeber his name at this point in time but he theorized that time is curved and because it's curved you could in fact return to that point eventually or something of that nature. The Enstine(oh I hope spelled his name right.) proved with his theory of relitivity that in fact that this was true. Or was it his theory on special relitivity I can't remember. And if anything I just said made any sence to anyone then you'd relize that it is quite possible for the events that happened to go'ol Jason could in fact quite possible not go against the fabric of time and space.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

That what I was trying to say you just said it better than me. That what I was trying to say when i was talking about Jason going back and perpetuating his own timeline. He started it and preserved it by going back in the past. Like largo said, his future curved in on itself to the point of him going back in time and preserving itself.

[*zeo]

Kamui de' Tempest, you have a pretty good grasp on what is going on. Jason can be described as that stone in the temporal pond. But it's more like a asteroid smashing into the ocean creating a super tsunami.

Though it presently impossible to explain what Time really is since there is no answer right now. It's just one of those things that are really beyond the grasp of the human mind to fully comprehend. Our brains simply aren't designed to process it any more than higher dimensions. Things like a hypercube can only be conceived of mathematically and in simplified terms.

The same is true of what we call time, which is only limited to what we can perceive of it.

In fact no scientist in the world has yet figured a way to describe what time really is. There are literally hundreds of competing theories debated all the time. Some even argue if time exists at all and is just an illusion of consciousness.

Curved time is also one of the theories largo but like the universe we can't be sure what its shape really is. Some think time is a loop for example, while others view it like a river, and other just as a wave expanding outward from the big bang.

For the WG fan fic we go with the present mostly accepted concept that time travel is generally impossible. Einstein didn't believe it was possible, then again he didn't believe in quantum mechanics either, though Relativity doesn't rule it out anymore than it really rules out faster than light travel. It only says it can't happen in certain ways.

The concept of using wormholes to time travel is one of the theorized loop holes and has been discussed extensively by scientists but most scientist don't think that would work, with factors like violating conservation of energy, violating causality, and up to causing a paradox being the reasons.

Some even argue there is no future or past, only the present and thus time travel would be impossible since there would be no past to return to. Like Stephen Kings Langoliers story, which is based on that theory, any attempt to time travel would lead to oblivion.

So we've mainly adopted the concept that any attempt to time travel just bounces you into a parallel reality. So they are really just moving through dimensional space rather than time. Thus no paradoxes are ever created.

But I'm one of those who believe time is far more complex than most scientist want to deal with.

So for the fan fic the we view time Multi-dimensionally, in the multiverse, time within each reality is treated as just reference points in the vibrational patterns of a said universe.

So a race like the Kregen who exist outside of our time can be aware of the whole of history of any given reality they choose to interact with. Within the Multiverse all timelines co-exist within a super timeline of the multiverse.

For Time War we explained the normal barriers against time travel were weakened by the Guyver Zoalord. Basically destroying the Earth was enough to create a temporal ripple big enough for WG to punch through to go to the actual past.

So instead of being bounced into a parallel reality WG went back to Earth's own past and altered history, creating a self preserving paradox.

From within the WG universe everything looks fine and Jason is a hero.

But outside from the multiverse the WG universe looks like it has warped into itself and is creating destructive ripples outward and is only contained by the Barrier.

The Kregen have no direct access to the WG universe because of this. The sending of the Gilgamesh unit was a one way thing.

Basically to the Kregen the WG universe might as well be a black hole. Just because they can't do anything to it or get very close doesn't mean they can't toss things into it like a dormant unit. They just can't reach in to take it back.

Distorted as their perception of the WG universe is, they can still make out bits and pieces, enough for them to choose who to send the unit to. But note they never talked to him or told him why they sent him the unit.

Also note that if what is happening to the WG universe is allowed to spread out to the rest of the multiverse it could kill the Kregen. So you can understand if they want to stop it now?

The Creation of Anubis is proof to the Kregens of this, the barrier would have contained the damage but with Jason traveling to other realities he basically violated quaratine and is spreading the paradox to other realities.

So as bad as Anubis may be he is still just the symptom while Jason is the Cause to the Kregen. If Jason travels to any other realities then the damage would be spread even further throughout the multiverse.

Technically, Jason did NOT re-write history, because it was someone else who sent him back in time, saying he had to. History already said that Jason went back in time to defeat the Guyver Zoalord; Jason himself was just the pawn who defeated GZ, not the one that sent himself back to fight it in the first place.

Uh, Tyranthrax, I'm one of the guys who write the WG fan fic!!!

Sorry but you are not aware of the back story we created for the Creation of the WG universe and how it all really started. You have only read what the end result was.

So when I say Jason is responsible, I mean Jason is responsible!

Even given what you do know Jason was no pawn, it was his choice from start to finish. It may not have been much of a choice but it was still he who decided to do it.

He couldn't even have gone back in time if he hadn't willed it. It doesn't matter what anyone else told him. The Creators didn't send him back, they just helped make it easier for him by leading him to the portal.

Jason was already sensing if he hadn't gone then the time line would have corrected itself and the original time line would have restored itself. He even saw it before he did the final jump. All the Creators did was explain what he was already starting to sense.

This is because he's the nexus of the paradox. So he alone was aware it was all coming to an end unless he preserved the paradox.

Everyone else was unaware, even the Creators weren't fully aware and only knew what they knew because Jason told them in the past and they were just passing what he told them back to him. Remember Draven, etc actually lived through the time war event so to them it was history.

The rest of the world would have blissfully blinked out of existence if Jason hadn't gone to the past.

Not to mention he also altered time by bringing Faye to the present. Consequently removing her DNA from human evolution over the last couple million years.

The fact the Creators are aware of the new time line is indicative that the paradox is over lapping, which is needed for it to preserve itself.

Usually when you bend space in on itself you get a black hole, so imagine the damage a time paradox could be causing to the multiverse?

Also note Time War created two paradoxes, the creation of the WG time line as we presently know it as well as one from the Future when CG used the same event to arrive in the present from the future. Just to show the paradoxes are overlapping and creating other paradoxes as well.

There are also other events in which I can't discuss yet that Jason will be involved with that the Kregen are already aware of.

[Tyranthrax]

Then what you're saying is, long story short: the 'Hero' of the story is actually the bad guy that needs to be killed, otherwise life as we know it will cease to exist.

I guess that is a pretty original idea. Have the lead character as the, final boss, so to speak.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

Man, Zeo1234, that's pretty much the long and short of it there. The whole thing about overlapping paradoxes is the same picture I was trying to paint with the whole knot thing. And it's funny how you mentioned he noticed or sensed the disturbances more clearly than the others around because he's the nexus of them, I wonder if the current incarnation of the timeline is trying to further perserve itself (and the paradoxes) by making events happen to give Jason access to Matrix (and the ensueing time/dimensional travel abilities) which allows him to further dabble his hand in the time stream ( or for a better example whirlpool)?

Edited April 2, 2007 by Guest

[Weltall2]

Okay even though Jason screwed up, I just can't vilify him. The Kregen (some jerk is nitpicking spelling) are playing God even if they do not realize it, this is a fact. Yeah Jason caused Anubis or did he? I argue Jason was a contributing factor; by challenging Greg’s Supremacy. However he was hardly the sole or major factor. In truth it was Krullnar who started that chain of events, and it was WG2 that caused Krullnar's need for revenge. So that automatically removes Jason from the realm of responsibility. Then the girl from W'kar's universe came seeking Jason's help, and Jason was really bailing Steven (can't remember if this is the right version) out of trouble. Ultimately the real blame lies with the creators. So why are the Kregen sending assassins after Jason? I am sorry I just can't lay sole blame with Jason. He's responsible, but he is not the only guilty party. Further the Kregen share the blame here too. If they allowed the paradox to happen in the first place, they are to blame as well.

[*zeo]

You don't have to vilify Jason Weltall2, but even heros can accidently cause great damage despite the best of intentions.

Yup Kamui de' Tempest, pretty much.

Basically one of the big overall themes of this fan fiction is whether or not Jason can, as the old saying goes, bake his cake and eat it too

Funny you should mention Ira Weltall2, you'd might note that Jason sensed that too before it happened. Did she really come for him or did he subconsciously call her?

She was relying on a Matrix but those WK's followed her despite the Barrier. Did Jason weaken the Barrier for her?

The Matrix barely allowed WG2 to make it through the Barrier, yet a less powerful Guyver like Assassin Guyver made it through and the Barrier was even weak enough to let the two WK's through even though even with 2 Matrixes Krullnar could not make it through the Barrier.

With the power of the Matrix, did Jason subconsciously set into the motion the chain of events of the Meetings fic?

Can you tell I love to tell stories with lots of subplots that are not immediately apparent?

And you really can't blame the Creators since they never altered history either.

That's like blaming a gun for killing someone instead of the shooter. It would have done nothing without the user. The Creators only did what they did because of Jason's actions.

The Creators in the WG universe may have created the Guyver Zoalord but the Guyver Zoalord didn't create a time paradox, Jason did!

You should also note that regardless of what WG2 did, it was ultimately Jason that allowed the conflict to happen. He chose to lead the team to help Ira.

If Dreadnought never got involved then the problem would have resolved itself, one way or another, and Anubis would never have been created.

Either the GWOTG cast would have defeated Krullnar or W'Kar would have died and with his death the W'Kar element would have exploded and destroyed Krullnar. Either way it would have been over and the multiverse would have been safe.

Not to mention part of the Reason Anubis happened was in part due to what Jason did to W'Kar, channeling his energy into W'Kar. Energy from a being responsible for a temporal paradox. . . How did you think that affected the W'Kar element?

Again there is nothing worse than causing a paradox, cause then you threaten existence itself. No other character has put the multiverse in that much danger regardless of their intentions.

Anubis can destroy whole galaxies and not cause that much disturbance to the multiverse.

Dreadnought's involvement allowed the paradox of Anubis. It was also his involvement that helped create the paradox of having duplicates of the major characters at the end of the Meetings fic.

Wherever Jason has gone he has caused radical changes. In a way he's kinda like Adam Warlock from Marvel Comics, he's both part of his reality and seperate at the same time. An agent of change both good and bad only time will tell if he will be a true hero or the destroyer of everything.

The Kregen didn't allow the Paradox to happen, they aren't gods, they can't be aware of all realities simultaneously. Their perception is greater than ours but is not limitless.

So they see a threat to their existence and just as we would do they are trying to stop it. If Jason dies then the WG universe will begin to stabilize and then the Kregen could try to restore the original time line... That's their plan anyway.