Do you think the Guyver is Imbalanced?

[*zeo]

4 minutes ago, Goku said:

wow. That sounds staggering. Where can i read (or watch) about where Apollon cuts off Exceeds hands? 

Book 32 of the Manga

[McAvoy]

So in other words you are assuming that the outer surface is crystalline in nature.

The same exact argument why it is dented when a full force punch from Guyver 1 did not can be said why the control medal did not chip when he did it. 

Crystalline structures when chipped much like metal will crack along the easiest route. They will not jump to another layer. The second layer will behave differently than the orb itself. 

Saying it wasn't dented but damaged is no different than me saying my car is damaged when I say my car door is dented in. Those words are interchangeable. You are being too literal. 

[*zeo]

8 hours ago, McAvoy said:

So in other words you are assuming that the outer surface is crystalline in nature.

The same exact argument why it is dented when a full force punch from Guyver 1 did not can be said why the control medal did not chip when he did it. 

Crystalline structures when chipped much like metal will crack along the easiest route. They will not jump to another layer. The second layer will behave differently than the orb itself. 

Saying it wasn't dented but damaged is no different than me saying my car is damaged when I say my car door is dented in. Those words are interchangeable. You are being too literal. 

 

No, it is different, your car's shell isn't part of the engine... The CM is a functioning device with nothing serving the function of a shell aside from the Guyver organism.  So your comparison is invalid...  We're talking damage to a functioning device!

 

I also clearly stated that G1's punch did not dent G2's CM... That's the point, a far more devastating impact with perhaps thousands of times more kinetic energy did not dent the CM yet you want to argue a impact with a fraction of that kinetic energy did... There's simply no logical reason to believe it was ever dented!

 

Again, the CM is not a lump of simple metal but a super advance alien device... It's function like a computer means the metal has to function like a processor and memory store which isn't something that a lump of metal can do!

 

Even remotely entertaining the idea it was dented is not backed by anything shown... The damage to the CM wasn't limited at the point of impact but went all the way through the side of the CM and actually got wider in the outer/bottom ring layer that's impeded in the organism in the recessed part of the dormant unit... But it was never sticking out like a sore thumb fully exposed to have it hit at a angle that could explain the pattern of damage.

 

Your argument that a chip/crack has to be ragged is also false... materials of crystalline structures can break off chunks and leave a smooth gap. Jaggedness is primarily a indication of variations in the crystalline structure but a perfectly uniform structure could break more smoothly...

 

While materials of the same type can spread a crack/chip between layers that are within physical proximity... Besides, you're not thinking it through, the primary blame for the damage was the original grenade blast and that would have hit the CM with a shock wave and not be limited to just one layer... add even if the top orb was damaged first the piece that broke off would have been pushed and slammed into the lower ring... Like a diamond getting hit by diamond shrapnel the damage could easily be spread...

 

You also are not even considering other factors... The dormant units weren't just removed from a Relic... a Army of Zoanoids forced their way in and the Relic used bio-logical defenses to kill them and even the one that finally got the units out died in the process... This means the Unit were exposed to physical trauma from both the Zoanoids and the Relic trying to stop them...

 

The G2 damage could also be explained by that event causing a weak point to be created on the CM... Maybe from the acid fluids that dissolved the Zoanoid that was holding the units at the time and the explosions just exploited a already weakened structure...

 

The live action movie also suggested the CM also has organic elements, which like the Relic could have started to deteriorate after so many hundreds of millennia's... Organic matter doesn't have to reach the point of fossilization to be in a weakened structure state...

 

Or, just like man made objects, that one CM may have simply had a defect... Even crystalline structures aren't necessarily perfect throughout a object and a imperfection can lead to a structural weakness that the other units may not have...

 

Regardless, what we do know is the G1 CM has withstood far more than that grenade that damaged the G2 CM... A Guyver can dive into molten lava and not worry about the CM failing!  You can't say that about a tank...

 

Even the standard Guyver has to take on Zoanoids with the firepower that can take out tanks but even for Hypers it's not always easy to damage a Guyver.

 

Besides, a dormant unit has another factor you didn't consider... It's not infused with Bio-Boost energy like a active unit.  The mass of the final Guyver is much more than just the dormant unit added to the host and we know from the Exceed that the CM can grow just like the rest of the unit and it could only do that if it too can be infused with energy and similarly enhanced...

 

Now, this by no means is to suggest the Guyver doesn't have to worry about the CM but it's not a fragile egg either... While it's the only part of the Guyver that can't be just regenerated... So it may be hard to damage, but that doesn't stop it being the Guyver's vulnerability and accumulative damage is a possible threat as well...

 

How it links to the host brain also provides some vulnerabilities as that's why a shock to the CM can de-activate it because the charge will go straight into the host brain... The sonic attacks that can cause the Guyver to lose consciousness is also likely because the CM is linked to the host brain but may also have to do with the crystal ring layer as there is some indication that's the part that actually controls the Guyver organism...

 

The anime also indicated sonic attacks could possibly block the hyper sensors, though the unit could adapt and use the Sonic busters to disrupt that block...

 

Basically, it should be possible to create technological ways to interfere with the CM even if it's hard to damage in its present state and that's a counter to its otherwise powerful abilities that would essentially make it seem near unstoppable to anything short of a Hyper Zoanoid...

[McAvoy]

2005 English version of the anime before Lisker merges with the unit calls it an outer metal surface by one of the scientists.

My whole argument is based on visual reprentation of the control medal being drawn like it metal. The outer casing being metal whatever underneath isn't what concerns me.

Crystalline structures do not jump to material as linear as you think. The force that caused the chip may transfer but it will jump as linear as you think. The force that caused the chip in the first place will expend it's energy significantly by the time the second layer is encountered. The second layer may or may not even chip. If it does chip it will not behave like the first layer. 

 

Metal when it dents will dent as is shown on the anime and manga.

Again, the forces that a Guyver can do in a punch will do the same to a crystalline structure vs. A metal outer layer.

My analogy of my car being damaged remains the same. My car door is damaged. It has a big dent in it that,prevents the window motor from operating. It prevents the car from using that car speaker. It is damaged but it has a giant dent. 

Or my car's hood is damaged. The hood is dented in, whicheck caused damage underneath the hood. Lines were dislocated, engine slightly off its mountings, etc. 

Yet I can say my car hood is damaged. Or it has a dent. It means the same.

Oh the 2005 anime I mentioned above said the outer metal casing is scratched. Should we take that literally?

[*zeo]

2 hours ago, McAvoy said:

My whole argument is based on visual reprentation of the control medal being drawn like it metal. The outer casing being metal whatever underneath isn't what concerns me.

Okay, that's the problem then because there is no such thing as a outer casing for the CM!

 

The entire thing is the processor/memory store... The Navigation spheres literally merged together to form the Gigantic CM, something they could not just do if there was a casing involved, never mind interfacing with the host CM...

 

What you read was simply a character guessing... Chronos did not know how the CM worked in the early episodes and even now they can only describe it as a form of "super technology" which they still can't fully replicate as indicated by the limited functions of the FG2 CM...

 

You're also just using your own interpretation of how you think the damaged looked but aren't following that if that was true then there should be a pattern to the damage that isn't shown... Again, if the metal was dented then it would have directly damaged the crystal ring layer immediately and caused the unit to fail right away... Just like your hood dent example caused damage below it... It would also have caused the whole CM structure to be distorted...  Metal doesn't just dent in a localized way... impact force is spread through the structure and distorts that structure accordingly... but again that is never shown...  Retaining the original shape with just localized damage is more the property of a crystalline structure...

 

Along with all the other points that a dent would follow the point of impact and not spread to other areas that are not in reach of that point of impact but the G2 CM is shown being damaged all the way to it its base layer... If anything that would take a impact against a rod shaped object that essentially stabs it as it's causing the dent but that isn't what happened to the G2 CM.

 

So even if you ignore all the other points it's clear that the damage does not follow the pattern of damage you would expect from a dent... The CM is also nothing like you're trying to describe as examples and you really need to get the concept of what it actually is, a super advance alien technology that much like our own computer technology is measured on the atomic scale and isn't a mechanical machine with moving parts!

 

The closest we'll get to something like it would be a quantum computer and even that would be a primitive comparison...

 

Regardless, I already pointed out that there are multiple examples of the CM withstanding far more than what is claimed to have caused the damage to the G2 CM... The other two units have withstood multiple high explosive shock waves, thermal conditions that would vaporize any known metal, can work from anywhere from the high pressure at the bottom of the ocean to the vacuum of space, can be exposed to extremely cold temperatures and not get damaged, has withstood acid attacks, sonic pulses with the power to shatter steel, and a few other examples...

 

So the point is made that the CM is tougher than you're trying to argue.  The G2 CM was either defective, previously damaged, or is simply more vulnerable when in a dormant state but as active units the other CM's have shown to be pretty resilient so far and thus should require a substantial and intentional attack directed on them to ensure damage and should not be underestimated by comparing them to normal man made metal objects...