Gigantic & Dark vs. Goku & Vegeta

[Matt]

Hey guys, have a bit of a debate here with a friend over who would win in a fight between Guyver 1 and 3 in their Gigantic form verses Goku and Vegeta. So i thought i'd and get some imput from you knowledgable people what do you guys reckon?

Also how would Alky fair against Goku and Vegeta. I'm speaking in the sense of Alky with posession of all the Zoa-Crystals.

[RazorLaser]

Goku/Vegeta are way overpowered... I'm sure they'd defeat Alky + both Gigantics, although not with ease. Unfortunately.

[*Jess♥]

it really depends at what stage of the story you want to set it.

I mean, goku vs freiza the first time....

his power level looks to be on a par with archanfel.

but obviously after that, nobody in the guyver universe would stand a chance against him.

goku and vegeta at their power level when they first fought, I think guyver gigantic and gigantic dark would beat them.

technically, gigantic guyver is supposed to have the potential to beat archanfel so it really ought to be able to defeat a basic Super Saiyan, but those guys are crazyfast.

guyver has power, but speed is another thing. well we don't know because we can't see speed in the manga, but the way it is drawn never gives me the impression it is happening faster than the human eye could see. dragonball was occurring at speeds faster than the eye could see from the very first tenkaichi tournament. so even if guyver could match the power, it might find it very difficult to track goku or vegeta.

[*YoungGuyver]

I don't see the point. Dragon ball z just gets juvenile and starts upping power levels instead of telling actual story. Opponent comes along, beats them, train hard, struggle, eventually win. So Goku and Vegeta will always win because is crappily written. Sho and Agito win some battle, then lose some battle. Chronos actually succeeded in taking over the world, Sho beat his father which was a loss, they have managed to keep the units out of Chronos hands, destroy the occasional base.

For me, there is no point in comparing, because dragon ball would have no real science to back up the win. It's just an 'ego' stroke.

[durendal]

Wow, we're like comparing Super Robots and Real Robots. whereas the Super Robots rely on "Guts" or "strong emotions" to power up their attack, real robots uses strategy and skill to defeat their opponents. I would say that Goku and Vegetta is more of the Super Robot sorts, while the Guyvers are more of the real robots. One can beat the other based on a certain scenario. So if you ask me as to who will win, my answer is - who would you like to win?

[Matt]

How would a Guyver Zoalord fair in a battle with the 2 DB characters. We may not have seen what type of power a GZ has but the concept has been made to look like the worst thing to happen in the Guyver.-verse

[*Jess♥]

I don't see the point. Dragon ball z just gets juvenile and starts upping power levels instead of telling actual story. Opponent comes along, beats them, train hard, struggle, eventually win. So Goku and Vegeta will always win because is crappily written. Sho and Agito win some battle, then lose some battle. Chronos actually succeeded in taking over the world, Sho beat his father which was a loss, they have managed to keep the units out of Chronos hands, destroy the occasional base.

For me, there is no point in comparing, because dragon ball would have no real science to back up the win. It's just an 'ego' stroke.

how much of dragonball have you actually read or watched?

because quite clearly, majin boo succeeds in wiping out the entire population of the earth.

please don't speak so harshly of dragonball if you haven't properly watched it or appreciate what it was trying to do.

yeah dragonball has a different style of story telling to guyver. the fact that the saiyan race is able to self evolve in a similar way to superman's doomsday is an interesting thing to deal with. it's similar to bruce lee in many ways. it's all about the fight, the fighting spirit. they start out just wanting to prove them self but then end up protecting the ones they love. and of course it generally boils down to training. always trying to find the most extreme form of training in order to get stronger. I think it is a good message to give to people, keep trying and practising and you will eventually get better.

shou doesn't have that ability. he can't strengthen himself through training. his training must be through the mind. thinking through scenarios. in a sense, shou has it easy. the dragonball characters really work for their power increase, whereas shou just wished for it. also he kinds got lucky in a lot of ways. but of course they do give different messages. guyver says "if you believe in yourself and those around you and care for your family and friends, you will find a way" but dragonball says "if you care for your family and friends, you can work hard and should be able to improve your situation".

in terms of story telling style the winner of such fights can be debated in many ways. but when it comes to the raw power that is shown, guyver has higher starting power, but the super saiyan have much higher potential.

a guyver zoalord... is not something we have seen or have any idea of scale of power. so we really can't even begin to compare.

[Matt]

even though it may potentially be a devistating turn of events i would like to see a guyver zoalord happen.

[*YoungGuyver]

how much of dragonball have you actually read or watched?

because quite clearly, majin boo succeeds in wiping out the entire population of the earth.

please don't speak so harshly of dragonball if you haven't properly watched it or appreciate what it was trying to do.

Used to watch the anime every night after work. So incredibly formulaic. An entire season can be explained in a single paragraph. And every season has the same basic structure. Maybe this is because Akira wanted to END the series after Freiza, but the execs demanded that he kept going. I could handle the Freiza saga, even though it drags. But after that, there was no real point in going on. That message you pointed out was a good one, but they made it. How much more powerful do you want Goku to become?

[*Jess♥]

Used to watch the anime every night after work. So incredibly formulaic. An entire season can be explained in a single paragraph. And every season has the same basic structure. Maybe this is because Akira wanted to END the series after Freiza, but the execs demanded that he kept going. I could handle the Freiza saga, even though it drags. But after that, there was no real point in going on. That message you pointed out was a good one, but they made it. How much more powerful do you want Goku to become?

fair enough [emote=monkey]z087[/emote]

I watched dragonball all the way from the beginning to the end of z. because that's where the manga ended.

I guess I appreciated it's simplicity and bold honesty.

I guess we merely have different opinion!

[Guyver0]

Ryuki, you're right about the message dragonball delivers: that if you train hard enough, you will succeed. Whereas you said with Sho he just had to "wish for it" and got his "Power" much more easily. I have to disagree because though in the dragonball verse Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, etc. did earn their power, they were relatively able to "save" their family and friends and it was a happy ending for everyone. However with Sho he always seemed to get stronger after the loss of someone.

Sho regained the ability to bioboost and became stronger after the death of his father.

Sho gets the Gigantic after their crushing defeat from Archanfel and after Murakami's "death".

Regains the power of the Gigantic from Agito after Hayami's death.

So yes Sho never had to physically trained, but the power he receives or gets back always had a morbid price.

And let me just ask, did anyone else think that GT just sucked?

[*Jess♥]

yep. I never would watch dragonball GT because the manga had ended at that point.

even though I would love to see more of the characters, it seems wrong.

I see your point about shou getting his powers after a loss. I hadn't fully considered it.