aptom and guyver

[unit 0]

Right so aptom cant absorb guyvers due to the control metal, but what about the boost creature??? due to it not having the control metal he would be able to absorb it but would it truly be a guyver without it? and would his cellular control allow him to regulate it, or perhaps combine it with his pseudo guyver form from way back? in the same vein would he have been able to absorb a proto zoalord? as the dummy crystals arent the real thing, or even to absorb a zoalord who is sans crystal? im thinkin an aptom guyver zoalord would be some crazy strong bugger and the cloning of himself, he could pretty much own everything in battle.

Edited July 16, 2012 by unit 0

[unit 0]

would also be funny to see him ask shou if he can cut off his hand lol

Edited July 16, 2012 by unit 0

[Oberon]

No control medallion, no guyver in my opinion.

I think he could absorb the bioboost creature, it's just organic material after all, but without the control, I don't think he'd get to be a Guyver out of it though he might be able to get some honing of ability.

[unit 0]

but the control metal regulates the boost creature and aptom can regulate his cells directly, plus he could incorporate it into his mimiced guyver form, also the knowledge of what guyvers are capable of should help him get a handle on it, imo.

[Aether]

yeah but there you are assuming that Aptom knows specifically how a Guyver works and how the control medal interacts with the host on a cellular level, plus he can't interact with the boost dimension to power the Guyver weapons...

maybe if Aptom did try to absorb the boost creature it would just eat Aptom because the metal is what prevents it from eating the host??

i dont see him absobing a Zoalord as as much of a problem, maybe as long as he absorbed the crystal too?? unless he could generate enough power to let his cells do what the Zoacrsytal does??

imho - Guyver no, Zoalord yes.

[unit 0]

ok but i doubt he knows exactly how each zoanoid he absorbs works but doesnt have a problem using/enhancing there abilities, also he cant absorb a zoalord because of the crystal, and even though it was never really explored, im guessing the boost creature has access to the boost dimension, otherwise why would it be called the boost creature?? i just wanna see a super aptom lolol

like the idea of it eating aptom, think its more likely it would make a composite of the 2, aptoms regeneration ability vs the boost creatures eating, plus the fact that the boost creature enhances natural characteristics and the regeneration is natural for aptom, but the boost creature in control, so raging out of control boost creature with no need to look for a new host, cool.

a zoalord who has had there crystal removed, i guess he coild certainly absorb them.

[*Jess♥]

some really interesting ideas being played with here

first thing I want to talk about is the 'boost creature'. well, we need to consider that we only call it the boost creature because we don't have any other name for it. it is the parasitic organism that makes up the core of the boost armour but this does not necessarily mean it is a literal 'booster', but rather the creature used for the boost system. from what we have seen, the main characteristic of the parasite is the ability to decode and use the DNA of the host creature. we can see how this would be useful for a booster system. it is almost like a genetic cut and paste system all ready to be used by the control metal. as was written in the VDF, it is an instant body remodelling system.

further from this, I can address another thing that has been said. that is the way zoanoids differ from the guyver system. in a zoanoid, the data for the transformation and the final zoanoid form is present in the cells of the body. aptom is designed to take this cell and the data within it and to place it within his own library of genetic data. the problem with the guyver system is that the weapon data is not stored in the hosts cells. shou cannot use guyvers weapons unless he is bio-boosted. it stands to reason that the control metal is responsible for all weapon and system data. without that data, the resultant form devolves into an ugly monstrous form that we have already seen in volume 2 of the manga. this is further evidence the weapons data of guyver is not within the cells of guyver or the host.

it isn't conclusive though. the data may still be there and we simply did not witness the creature using said abilities.

lastly, I wanted to talk about the zoacrystal and aptoms potential energy sources. we have to this date seen many zoanoid forms that appear to feature some kind of srystal structure with no obvious reason for it, no apparent use for it etc. for example, enzyme II and III have a crystal right on their forehead. what is this for? well since the zoacrystal has been said to be used for energy storage like a battery, then why not use other kinds of crystal batteries for other zoanoids?

well we have seen aptom in action and it is clear that he has massive reserves of energy anyway. he could have many energy storage methods including many biologically generated crystals that could be on par with a protozoalords crystal in terms of energy storage. but of course he has not displayed any mind control abilities so there must be a specific configuration for that ability within a crystal. who knows?

oh! I said lastly but i forgot to mention something else that i was thinking of positing. both the 'boost' parasite and aptoms cells are able to invade cells and analyse DNA. the question is, which is stronger? would aptoms cells win against the parasite or would the parasite cells win against aptom?

what if aptom tried to absorb some parasite cells and the parasite ended up taking over him completely? that would be one dangerous, out of control mofo.

[Super Existence]

I remember posting this one a long time ago on the original Guyver board.

If Aptom absorbed Sho, could he summon the Guyver?

[Aether]

.....

in a zoanoid, the data for the transformation and the final zoanoid form is present in the cells of the body.

Thats why i said i think Aptom could absorb or replicate a Zoalords cells as long as his own bio system could cope with the energy production to maintain the form, seeing as he doesnt have a Zoacrystal to do so. like you said as in the case of the Zoanoids all the information is there already.

it would be like seeing a torch that is illuminated and wanting to replicate it, so you could get the blueprint for a torch but if you had no battery it wouldnt work, BUT if you made another way to power it through mains or a wind up device you end up with a working torch emitting light but via a slightly different way. (did that example help at all or was it even necessary!!?? )

i also think that the Telepathic/ mind control abilities would be a preprogrammed function of the crystal or it could be part of the genetic make up of a Zoalord - in which case Aptom would be able to control lower Zoanoids if he absorbed that capability from a zoalords brain's genetic make up. watch out Cronos if that happenend!!!!

like the idea of it eating aptom, think its more likely it would make a composite of the 2, aptoms regeneration ability vs the boost creatures eating,

..both the 'boost' parasite and aptoms cells are able to invade cells and analyse DNA. the question is, which is stronger? would aptoms cells win against the parasite or would the parasite cells win against aptom?

hmm.... Aprtom cells vs boost creature cells , that would be an all out war - i think they would end up as a pulsing mass of goop on the floor in an eternal battle for supremacy!!!!!! absorb- eat - regenerate - absorb - eat- regenerate -absorb..... ∞

If Aptom absorbed Sho, could he summon the Guyver?

Aptom absorbing sho????? good question!

if Aptom replicated Shou's brain and or nervous system and possibly just his whole body then MAYBE he could boost if him doing so would trick the control metal into thinking Aptom was Sho?? although maybe he would need Shou's consciousness to call it / control it, and thats not really a physical thing that can be replicated (unless you work at the Dollhouse!)

Edited July 18, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

it would be like seeing a torch that is illuminated and wanting to replicate it, so you could get the blueprint for a torch but if you had no battery it wouldnt work, BUT if you made another way to power it through mains or a wind up device you end up with a working torch emitting light but via a slightly different way. (did that example help at all or was it even necessary!!?? )

I love this analogy. very nice.

I don't think aptom would have a problem with zoalord DNA because aptom already has a crazy fast metabolism. we know that due to his ability to heal so fast.

this was explained by the description of enzyme 3 when they showed they could heal that fast as well.

at least i think so.

but even if the zoalord DNA did prove to be a bit too over-clocked, I think aptom would be able to under-clock it or put it on a shelf until he can find a way to store more energon.

[unit 0]

or maybe aptom himself could regulate the boost creature, they've got an artificial control metal, so aptom could essentially be a biological control metal, plus we already know he could imitate a guyver, so it would just be a case of adding it to that, im not saying he would be a guyver but damn close, and even the boost creature alone would surely be good just for the difference, its own regenerating and cloning powers coupled with aptoms, which im guessing work in a different way, plus im not sure he would even need the zoacrystal, or whether it would even work, because he's no longer a zoanoid but something different, a battecreature.

[*Jess♥]

unfortunately, that's a bit of a leap. across a chasm!

yeah, aptoms ability works on genetic data. in order to act as a control metal, aptom would need gentic data that may allow him to control the parasite. where does this come from? I don't think we've seen any evidence to support the control metal being a genetically grown construct.

the fact that cronos made an artificial control metal, and the appearance of it, suggests it is a fabricated item. a device.

to suggest aptom could 'regulate' the booster parasite, really you need some sort of evidence to support that idea.

[Jade Tatsu]

I might be forgetting here but doesn't the Guyver actually come from the 'boost dimension' so technically it's not really of this world. Aptom might have just a smidge of trouble absorbing something that is not only non zoanoid, non human but also not part of this universe.

Assuming I'm remembering correctly then the Guyver parasite has to be able to phase or jump dimensions which would mean some pretty nifty abilities in cells which just might be a bit too much for Aptom to absorb and is probably at least partially what the control medallion is for beyond normal power and absorption regulating.

[unit 0]

the fact that he can enhance the abilities of zoanoids he absorbs proves he can regulate and alter the dna he absorbs or he would just have direct copies of there abilities, his capabilities are3 much more than just absorbtion or hybridisation, i fail to see how copying them would increase the power, would be like copying a game and the copy having better graphics, as the zoanoids he absorbs cannot boost the strength of there abilities, its all just conjecture anyhoo, i just would like to see a guyver aptom i always thought he looked pretty cool in his psuedo guyver form, and imagine a guyver around his omega blast form, cool muchly. im not saying he would be a guyver just would be interested to see how absorbing the boost creature might affect his abilities, as both the creature and aptom have regeneration abilities, or whether he would be digested. just that perhaps he could regulate the boost creature or that if said creature had a genetic memory of what the control metal powered ability was would his regeneration ability restore it to a similar function? and even if not perhaps the boost creature itself would enhance certain aspects, or then again maybe diminish them, for example if it was digesting him but his regeneration had it locked in a stalemate would he have the ability to heal anymore? or the opposite that his regeneration abilities would be off the chart as on one hand we have the boost creature which can create a body from a hand and aptom who can do the same from a cell, would these abilities mesh? do they work in a similar way or would they be antagonistic to each other?? i get what your saying about the control metal being a device but was supposing that there might be a biological equivalent, not that aptom was using the data more like he was making up his own method, if possible, coz its all just suposition until or really if this subject is covered in the manga, im just enjoying the discussion and everyones theories.

Edited July 19, 2012 by unit 0

[*Jess♥]

I might be forgetting here but doesn't the Guyver actually come from the 'boost dimension' so technically it's not really of this world.

I have absolutely no idea where that came from. I've never heard anything like it.

I'm pretty sure there is nothing like that in the manga.

I would be pretty shocked if that were true because i usually remember something like that.

was that from a fanfiction perhaps? maybe a good one that went into a lot of detail.

[Jade Tatsu]

Actually Ryuki it's on the Wiki. http://www.japan-legend.com/wiki/index.php?title=Guyver_biology

Boost Dimension

When the Boost Armor is not in use, the armor is removed from the normal dimension, and transfered to another dimension. As per Segawa Tetsuro, the armor is transfered into the boost dimension in standby until it is summoned by the biobooster. It is not officially specified at this time as to how the boost dimension works, but it is inferred that once the armor is returned to the boost dimension, it quickly charges immediately repairing minor damages.

The Boost Dimension is also the source of power for some of the Guyver's weaponery, specifically the Gravity Orb.

Go my memory!... and the fanfic

What I can't remember though is if the boost creature had any particular powers. If it didn't then I think we have to assume that the control medallion contains the instructions on either how to operate those powers, or how to form them correctly, or both.

[unit 0]

thats only stating where its stored though it doesn't say anything about it originating in the boost dimension??? would explain where the needed energy comes from though.

Edited July 20, 2012 by unit 0

[Jade Tatsu]

Given that it has to cross dimensional boundaries once 'activated' at some point is does have to go there.

Now yeah I said 'comes from' the boost dimension when probably when not on a host it is in normal space as we see the Guyver Unit originally. But once on a host, it does seem to change a bit.

[unit 0]

the question is does it have access to the boost dimension before addition of the control metal, would be cool if they were researching the boost dimension and a boost creature jumped out, or if it was added after the insertion of the control metal, i always thought it just disappeared into some type of sub space pocket dimension, for easy storage.

[Jade Tatsu]

That's exactly what happens but a pocket dimension even in subspace means you have to cross some sort of barriar, in that case the barriar between normal and sub space.

I figure the parasite exists normally while without a host, and those things that wrap up the restrain it and the control medallion, then when it gets a host it can start jumping dimensions... All of which is fun and what not but not really related to if Aptom could control/gain guyver ability's from absorbing a boost creature or part of the armor.

[unit 0]

lol i do tend to get sidetracked

[*Jess♥]

sorry about that, I also misunderstood and thought you meant the parasite originated from the boost dimension.

yeah of course the guyver comes from the boost dimension when the host calls it.

it is an interesting way of looking at it, that the guyver, when activated, is not completely corporeal?

is that what you were getting at?

personally, I feel like in guyver the dimensions have strong barriers that would mean the guyver couldn't exist on both sides of the threshold, but there was some ideas a while back about the guyvers cells continuously siphoning small amounts of energy from micro dimensional gates or something. this is getting too complicated to think about so I'll shut up.

[Jade Tatsu]

I didn't write it that clearly to start with I knew what I meant.

I would have thought that to stay in contact with the Host, the activated parasite has to draw some sort of energy. Yes they have those marks on their backs that are supposed to be antenna but that doesn't have to be everything. Eh... I just think that if something is jumping dimensions, which the activated unit is capable of, then Aptom would have a hard time controlling or assimilating that.

Now can someone remind me if the Boost Creature had any powers?

Edited July 20, 2012 by Jade Tatsu

[unit 0]

that it strengthens and amplifies the hosts living functions.check guyver systems.

Edited July 20, 2012 by unit 0

[Jade Tatsu]

Okay so the boost creature didn't have any of the funky powers which to me makes it all the more likely that unless Aptom got his hands on a Control medallion the weaponry is not going to be transferred if he just gets a sample from the Guyver.

Maybe if we look at it in another way. The Control Medallion has all the weapons and information while the parasite is simply an energy source, which by itself just eats the host and doesn't have any major abilities. that would mean that all Aptom gets if he manages to say get an arm off Sho is another potential form of energy, not anything special.