if you like naruto...

[*Jess♥]

so i think fma brotherhood won't be as depressing as the first series back then?

well anyway... I have watched about 3 eps so far.

I think after watching a fair few eps of dragonball, then watching this, I see a stark contrast in attention level. this got my attention right away. something about the way the characters act, the presence of backstory and the certain mystery elements. motivation etc.

now to go back to dragonball, I saw goku and now he is missing something in particular. and now he is training with kame sennin. well i only went halfway through that because the last half was incomplete so I'll go back to that episode sometime soon.

i think the most depressing thing i remember about the first fma was the chimera.

i think that may be in this series as well, I am not looking forward to that part because i get the feeling it may upset me. but i'll be alright. maybe i can cast a more positive light on it this time around.

[durendal]

Ouch, yeah, the Chimera, that was actually pretty sad, and yes, it's part of the story. But that is also the reason why the Elric Brothers have been pushing so hard with their quest. That is one incident that they could never forget. Although I think that they downplayed it in the new series. You might say that is also one of the "emotional value" of the series. Nevertheless, I'm quite happy with the ending of the manga. The ending of the first series really left me with a "WTF" moment.

With the way things are, it might take you a while to finish Dragonball. Because there are still a lot more story arcs to cover, like the Red Ribbon Army arc and more tournament battles, which I think there are 3 if I'm not mistaken.

[*Jess♥]

ha ha , i decided to quit fullmetal alchemist.

it is too depressing.

it is SOOOOOOOOOO depressing.

i watched about 5 or 6 episodes and then i thought maybe i want to curl into a ball and die. no, instead i'll select all episodes and hit delete.

that's a better choice.

hmm, so i watched episode 3 of naruto. i previously watched 1 and 2 recently. so i watched ep 3. now maybe i'll watch all of naruto again. hmmm, or maybe i'll just continue with my drama. i like these drama. i'm about halfway through zettai kareshi and i have almost half a series of rescue fire to finish off.

as eether reminded me, there is nothing that can match up to naruto so I should not try to match it.

well there is one thing that matches up... [emote=onion]cute[/emote] :G1: :G1: :G1:

[*V Guyver]

Damn... we created a Naruto monster. Rewatching lal the episodes. Sounds awesome though. I guess that is one way to keep yourself busy between episode updates and helps soak in some of the lesser noticed plot points.

I still wish you try out a few more anime.

[durendal]

Could it be? Ryuki has finally stepped over the edge and became a... *gasp* Narutard?

[*Jess♥]

yeah i was a narutard after watching the zabuza arc for the first time. but anyway, of course i am watching other anime!

well consider this... before i started watching naruto i was not watching ANY anime, so naruto actually brought me into this frame of mind of being more interested in anime for the time being.

and i am still gonna watch dragonball. and i am getting d gray man, fairy tail, and welcome to the nhk. who knows if i'll stick with those, the only way to find out is by watching and seeing. I might also give abenobashi another try.

I do want to consider though... what has happened to the state of tokusatsu these days...

it is sad that the only toku releasing atm is kamen rider W and people don't seem to be overly excited about that anyway. it's MOST sad that sentai has just fallen into the pit of forgotten things. as far as i know, goseiger is not even worth comment.

[durendal]

Haha. Of course you know I was only teasing you right?

I for one have not been watching any anime as of late. Although I am following FMA: Brotherhood, I have not actually seen any of their latest episode. And that's probably the only anime I have seen this year so far. Oh wait, there's also Gundam Unicorn. but that's an OVA and not a TV series.

Anyway, I do agree with your observations about the Toku scene. W isn't really something that got me hooked, and current sentai shows aren't really my cup of tea. Even the last decade movie was a let down. I'm not entirely sure about the quality of shows nowadays, but it's either they are badly made or I'm getting too old for this.

[*V Guyver]

well it's a genra that has been repeatable used year after year. Remember what happened to star trek, they had a continued numer of series with no break for over 2 decades. In the end we all needed a break, when they brought it back, it was better then ever. What they need is a year haitus on all takatsu series in order to reflect on what they should do with a series.

A lot of the same happened with Anime, because of all the cloned themes in verious manga. What they ended up doing was going for the weirder niche manga, it payed off and it's ow we got shows like One Piece and Naruto out here.

[*Jess♥]

as i had been talking about dragonball in here, I thought i'll add this here.

I have watched the most fun and entertaining half hour of entertainment that i can ever remember last night.

I got to the tournament and then it got to the match, kuririn vs jackie chun!

my oh my, I am even laughing now thinking about it!

that has to be the most most hilarious thing i have ever seen!!

it really started to kick it up a notch a couple episodes early... like kuririn fighting bacterion.. and goku said to him " you have no nose"

i was almost on the floor! I obviously thought that his not having a nose was just part of the art style...

but then.. when seeing a later episode muten roshi sama made mention of the character that was "too serious for an oddball character anime"

and then when the commentator asked him what happened in that flash.. and he said they'd do a slow-mo!!! HA HA HA that was so funny! and he even had him lifting him up and carrying him

OMG this anime is just so much genius.

It took me a while to get back to it but i've passed the mark now. the mark that confirms a series for me.

when i have no more reservations.

I am now a dragonball liker. not a fan yet but i think i may become one.

one thing i have noticed though.. wow, naruto really does rely on dragonball a fair bit!

I mean...

they give a starting off story arc that basically builds up to one moment where they show how the main character has a monster like alter ego. then that finishes and the main character enters a type of tournament and during that tournament there is a suggestion of the characters secret powers again.

and goku eats so much, and is childlike and kinda dumb in a way.

I think that naruto is kind of like a remake of dragonball but with many different elements mixed in.

[durendal]

Really not suprising seeing that Kishimoto, the author or Naruto, grew up inspired by Dragonball. See, I told you to give it a chance. The later arcs gets intenser and intenser especially after the introduction of Tao Paipai. It's only Dragonball Z that ruined the anime for me with it's constant one episode duration of charging up.

[*Jess♥]

yes, that's one of the major drawbacks of this franchise. but that's why i only recently became interested in this franchise, because dragonball kai is fixing what dragonball z broke.

[Aether]

glad you 'like' dragonball so far Ryuki. it certainly does get even better in my opinion.

although i look forward to watching DB Kai when its done, im still not sure wether there was 191 eps of filler, its a big task to condense 291 eps to 100!! im intrigued to see exactly how theyve done it......

a small DB Kai rant : i would have loved to have seen this 100 eps reanimated in the style of the opening credits of db kai- now that would have truly kicked some freakin ass. in my opinion toei was lazy and dissrespectful to the fans, surely they have made trillions of yen over the 25 years of DB?? enough at least to shell out for 100 eps of new anime to give the fans ?

Edited September 2, 2010 by Eether

[durendal]

I'm sure during the time DBZ was airing, fillers were not popular. And the only thing relatively close to fillers are the prolonged battle scenes which are only a few minutes in length would last for multiple episodes.

Also, as for Toei animating new episodes, I don't think the popularity of Dragonball now are the same as it was a few years ago. So fans might not react well to the revival of the series. Remember that they have enough problems securing budget for 24 episodes, let alone 100 episodes. And sad to say, the money they made all the years probably went to other projects.

[*Jess♥]

yes, dragonball is getting much better.

I just finished watching the muscle tower story.

I really like ha-chan. he is so cool.

and wow... I'm seeing so much of what is probably the major influence of naruto . that guy in the tower was just like a hentai of naruto.

it was like... kinda like konohamaru.

but,, i have seen shinobi in many places, many different anime, yet this is so blatantly like what we now see in naruto. it's too much to be a coincidence especially considering the other elements that have been lifted.

it's a bit annoying though.. because at this point, my download has slowed to a crawl. and I am catching up to the episodes that i have got completed.

[*V Guyver]

You never noticed the similarities? Comparisons have been made for years. Of course I don't blame you for not actualy seeing the series earlier. But it was a big worldwide thing. Currently both Naruto and One Piece are big franchises that followed the Dragon Ball formula in many ways. Bleach did the same thing, but they took a Yu Yu Hakusho fused with Dragon Ball Z aprouch.

[durendal]

As much as I hate to atmit it, but everything anime are just copies of previous successful series with something new added as to look original. Some were a runaway success, while others was a complete flop. Additionally, it happens that almost all the current popular manga artist (Oda-One Piece, Kishimoto-Naruto, etc) grew up on Dragonball. You might say that they are the one conveying the pleasure to today's generation in which dragonball was to their generation.

As much as I hate to atmit it, but everything anime are just copies of previous successful series with something new added as to look original. Some were a runaway success, while others was a complete flop. Additionally, it happens that almost all the current popular manga artist (Oda-One Piece, Kishimoto-Naruto, etc) grew up on Dragonball. You might say that they are the one conveying the pleasure to today's generation in which dragonball was to their generation. Much like inheriting the will of Toriyama.

[Aether]

i still say Toei screwed us. i dont think theres many DB fans that wouldnt have liked to have seen Kai reanimated anyway....

first off i'll say i LOVE Dragonball. there is no doubting that. but i will say if i had to really make a decision about it i would have to say that Naruto is better. there ive said it. i didnt think i would ever have to but its done now. who cares if Naruto is similar in some kind of way. i said earlier in this thread that to me i see Naruto as a mix of influence from DB and Hokuto no Ken. might not be accurate but thats what i think.

if it was a poor carbon copy and was crap maybe it would be worth pointing out. if narutos clothes were green and red would it make the show/ manga any less amazing?? or would Kishimoto have ben copying those colours from Toriyama's tienshinhan??

anyway , they say theres nothing new under the sun. for example..

i have 2 manga ideas in my head, only recently i aquired satan666 and realized that the mangaka had already done a portion of one of my ideas would this stop me from continuing with it? yes and no. although my idea is different to a degree there would always be that - ''oh, thats similar to that in satan666'' hanging in the air. which was through no fault of mine whatsoever.

also i think theres inspiration and then theres copying. i wouldnt ever say Naruto copied anything. its unique. and even if it did it made it 100 x better.

if there was no inspiration we'd be in a constant state of the same thing... imagine if giant robo stuff hadnt moved on since tetsujin 28, there would be no Gundam, no super sentai robots, no Transformers etc.etc.

i do like Durendals point about the recent mangaka's conveying the enjoyment of past generations. i still wouldnt call it copying though.

maybe in years to come there will be something that is as awesome as Naruto and we will have Naruto / kishimoto to thank for it...

Edited September 3, 2010 by Eether

[*Jess♥]

no, this is a bit too much to not be considered copying. the formula of the story is the same. another example, the character ero-sennin is almost a carbon copy of kame-sennin. I'm not saying i'm angry or anything, because i do really love naruto. I just find it odd, even funny how the author has the balls to be so blatant about it.

so in response to v-guyver, well I have never seen dragonball before. I have always made a concerted effort to completely avoid these type of anime. this is why it's all such a big deal to me now.

oh and about the thing that.. all anime or manga is mostly a copy? what about guyver? mostly influenced by early henshin heroes, right? it's not so much a copy of earlier manga or anime, more influenced by other stuff though.

[Aether]

no, this is a bit too much to not be considered copying.

kishimoto himself says he specifically wanted his main character to be LIKE goku as he 'represents the archetypal shonen jump hero' that gets readers 'energized' with his 'straightforward way of thinking and mischievious side'...

he freely admits he was inspired by DB. i doubt he would say he flat out copied it.

perhaps this is all semantics again

to me copying would be ero senin being a fragile old man who is eventully far far surpassed in power by his students, reads porno mags all day on an island with a turtle, is lucky not to have been brought up on sexual harrassment charges and enters martial arts tournements under a name as a homage to jackie chan.

and to me being inspired by would be ero senin being some kind of a toad demigod,a hard as f*** legendary shinobi, who writes erotic literature and has an eye for the ladies,...

there are always going to be archetypes for any character, the new spin and padding out of the character is down to the individual creator and what makes new stuff different and or cool.

pointless argumentive post over

[*Jess♥]

it's not really an archetype though is it?

it's more like what a person may do when they want to avoid plagiarism charges.

old 'wise' man is an archetype, sure. but old, incredibly tough martial artist, who summons an animal that spends part of it's time in the water and part of its time out of water, is named as a sage of that animal, is considered a pervert, and teaches the protagonist in order for him to take part in the tournament etc. and uses an incredibly powerful energy move and teaches it to the protagonist. that's not an archetype.

[Aether]

it's not really an archetype though is it?

it's more like what a person may do when they want to avoid plagiarism charges.

old 'wise' man is an archetype, sure. but old, incredibly tough martial artist, who summons an animal that spends part of it's time in the water and part of its time out of water, is named as a sage of that animal, is considered a pervert, and teaches the protagonist in order for him to take part in the tournament etc. and uses an incredibly powerful energy move and teaches it to the protagonist. that's not an archetype.

bah, looks like its agree to disagree time. ...................

however im going to throw this last bit of argumentitive banter out there

plagirised = copy someone elses work and claim it as your own

inspire = stimulate somebody to greater effort enthusiasm or creativity

as i highlighted in my post above kishimoto freely admits he was inspired by DB and i say he has made somnething more than DB...

i get your point but still.... if i remember rightly Toriyama admits he was inspired by / 'plagirised' Superman in creating Goku/ DB

DB beats Superman, Naruto beats DB. as long as its not a poor copy or the building on of an idea is better than / different in some way than the original then i dont think it matters. if its worse then the plagirist really needs to take plagirism lessons. if the end result is cool its all good in my books.

agreement settled

Edited September 4, 2010 by Eether

[durendal]

Whatever the arguments you guys are putting out, at least what these authors are doing are more positively enforced as opposed to the blatant technique administered by Nick Simmons by his Incarnate comics. That, I think, we all agree is blatant plagiarism.

[*Jess♥]

yeah, you are right.

but eether don't get me wrong. I'm not pointing my finger in an aggressive fashion at kishimoto. as i said , I love naruto and i will still love it no matter how much he blatantly copies from other manga/anime.

and come on... comparing superman to dragonball is nothing like comparing dragonball to naruto..

this is all i'm really objecting to here because you seem to be brushing my thoughts under the rug as though it's some kind of conspiracy.

dragonball is to superman as aeroplane is to car. a car goes fast and gets you from a to b. an aeroplane is a different animal but has the same basis, travel.

naruto is to dragonball as f1 car is to street car. it does it better but it is essentially the same thing.

I'm not trying to say it's a complete and total rip-off and doesn't have its own original elements, I'm just saying it copies so much, it's kinda funny.

shall we have a sliding scale?

inspired by [---¦-------------------------] blatant rip-off

dragonball and superman.

[-¦---------------------------]

naruto and dragonball

[--------------¦--------------]

nick simmons

[---------------------------¦-]

you might disagree with my exact placing but i don't think you can disagree with the general idea.

[Aether]

......

you might disagree with my exact placing but i don't think you can disagree with the general idea.

ha ha, yeah well i really do get your point, i did from the begnning, i just personally wouldnt call it plagirism i only wrote what i did because i was feeling argumentative

although the whole superman goku thing cant be discounted... i wont give full details because you are only a portion of the way through DB and some of the stuff is later on in Z - anyhow its still minor stuff and not that significant as the whole DB to Naruto thing, but never the less its there.

...the blatant technique administered by Nick Simmons by his Incarnate comics. That, I think, we all agree is blatant plagiarism.

Nick Simmons and the whole Bleach thing ? yes - BLATANT plagirism. That was just bad, he needs to go and take some of those plagirism lessons i was on about!

Edited September 4, 2010 by Eether

[*V Guyver]

The old Goku Superman thing has always been an interesting topic.

Two being from a planet who were sent off as infants. Both grow up to be heroes of justice, with incredible abilities and single minded dedication. Both are practically gods in in terms of power, and to top it off, they both form a team of heroes to combat evil in the world and Beyond.

Yeah, Goku was inspired by a Chinese Mythology of a Monkey, but also a bit of superman. It can't be ignored.

But you know what. Goku was super original for his time, and he was presented in such a good way that he endeered fans for decades. Naruto is no different. He may of followed the same archtypes, and character models. But the series is incredibly well put together, and presented in a much better fashion.

No one should hate characters born like that. Are you going to hate Batman because he's a fusion of "The Bat" and Zorro"?

Shoudl you hate the Magnificent Seven for being based off of the Seven Samurai?

Is one going to hate chocolate chip cookies because it was based off test cakes?

It's like saying I'm going to think less off of awesome Norse Mythology because it's spawned from Greek mythology. Given the two I would rather stick with Norse. Much more badass. My point if you haven't gotten it folks (and help you god if you are more dense then myself) Is that just because something is partly molded off another, doesn't make it any less fantastic then the impact it gives us upon seeing it. Once it's given a life of it's own that truly stands out, then it's no longer a real theft of character.