page:Kamen Rider Series

[*Jess♥]

no i don't think it's necessary to change anything.

it's just a minor annoyance.

the people can easily visit the page that we are discussing.

the links work fine.

[durendal]

I'd also like to discuss the term "Kaijin" which we can say is the "Monster of the week" for the Rider series. Since the term "Kaijin" are already accepted vernacular to a tiny minority, I feel this is still something that is alien to an average layman. The answer here is to obviously translate it, but I'm somewhat at a lost as to what we should call them. I don't think "Mysterious Person" would do the term "Kaijin" enough justice. Do you think "Creature" would suffice?

It's times like this that I wish there was an editor involved so I could concentrate on translating.

[*Jess♥]

well durendal, you know i love working on translating things and working with english

in this case i think guy is a good term for person.

as for kai....

it means suspicious, mystery, apparition.. I might be tempted to say boogie man... but that sounds childish. we could call them stranger... but that sounds too generic.

oh hold on... kaijin can be translated as 'unknown'. sound familiar? do you think we can use that as separate from agito?

another option is 'creep' assigned to a person who is creepy.

I thik 'creep' is a good translation for kaijin. I want to suggest this over all other ideas.

creep is also a term I've often heard used for the monster in horror movies or games.

EDIT:

but i thik kaijin is used quite often isn't it?

should we use the generic term 'bad guy' ?

is that what the show makers are suggesting?

[durendal]

I'm not sure "creep" would have the right feel to it. I think what they were referring to here is the "Mysteriousness" or the "Strangeness" of the enemy. This is also related to the term "Kaiju" which means "monsters" or "Strange Beast". Maybe we can use "Strange Men" instead? Though it still feels awkward. I'm still suggesting "creature", which is somewhat similar to the "Monster" of "Kaiju".

[*Jess♥]

okay, I see what you're saying. that makes sense

however... when referring to a person I would never say 'creature' to describe mysterious or unfavourable.

as we know from japanese society, a strange or mysterious person is viewed unfavourably. hence gaijin. so kaijin is definately not a kind term. in english, the connotation of mysterious or strange is not nearly as negative as it is in japanese culture.

i would never say strange man, that just doesn't sound very suitable at all.

you say kaiju means strange beast or monster...

well kaijin could mean strange man or monster.

because in english, 'monster' can be attributed to both man and beast alike. I think using mopnster would be quite suitable when looking at it this way.

[*Jess♥]

hey durendal, I think you would really like to see this page - http://tvarc.toei.co.jp/tv/library/series-title.html

[durendal]

I'm not so sure I would want to rely on that. For one thing, the english titles came from their international sales team, and not from them, so its kinda semi-official. And "Getta Robo" to "Goldbang"? What the hell?

[*Jess♥]

ha ha, well i thought you might find it interesting anyway

[durendal]

Some other WTH translations:

Hokuto no Ken 2 = Ken Great Bear Fist 2

Youkirou = Geisha?

Aishite Night = Love in Rock & Roll?

203 Kochi Ai wa Sinimasuka = Port Arthur??

I find it weird they Name Getta Robo G as Getta Robo G but Getta Robo Go as goldbang?

[*Jess♥]

ha ha , those are pretty crazy!

[durendal]

Sorry to revive this, but getting back on topic, I again find the term "Kamen" and "Masked" somewhat confusing. Ryuki, I'm sure you were very adamant about using Masked Rider, even quarreled with someone over it. But lately, I seem to notice that a lot of the guys here use the term "Kamen" instead of "Masked". Even you yourself have been using kamen rider recently. I know this is a very trivial matter, but should I continue using "Masked Rider" or would we be okay using "Kamen Rider" instead? I know that Double uses Kamen instead of Masked as noted in the opening, so we will definitely use Kamen there. Any thoughts? I'm Just looking for some reassurance that I'm not "out of the loop".

Don't mind me, just starting some conversation here.

[*Jess♥]

I think it's nothing to worry about really, but we should keep it simple.

if the title card of the show calls him masked rider, then he is a masked rider.

I think initially we wanted to make it easy for people who are not familiar with the shows but it is difficult to find a way to even get those people aware of our site. so perhaps we should just go with the flow where it is not specified.

if there is no name on the title card, we can go with what our members use mostly.

but i wouldn't worry about going around changing things. sure, we could go over all the pages and change stuff but to be honest i am not prepared to do that and i don't expect anyone else to.

[*Jess♥]

we changed all these things to english.

but i'm thinking, will people really be searching for these terms?

is it not just being awkward to translate them if people don't actually know that is what they are looking for?

if a person doesn't know what sentai means for example, maybe they won't click on a page called super squadron?

and i think most of us say kamen rider rather than masked rider.

[durendal]

I think that "Kamen Rider" and "Sentai" is already an accepted vernacular, in which wiki is already proof of that. Also for the average layman, they wouldn't even know what Sentai or Kamen Rider is, and even if you still translate them to Masked Rider and Super Squadron, they still wouldn't know how to differentiate them. They would just search for giant robot and guy with bug helmet and costume.

I'm inclined to think that the debate between using "Kamen Rider" and "Masked Rider" are being done by elitists. There is really no difference.

[*Jess♥]

yeah i think i am gonna work on changing our links and naming throughout our articles.

[*Jess♥]

it's been a while, but now i have done it.

[durendal]

Yes you have indeed. Now your in trouble for it. PSYCHED!!!

Kidding aside, I revived this thread to seek some opinions, as well as motivation to continue my course with the Kamen Rider wiki. You may have noticed that I have completed the Kamen Rider THE FIRST wiki and started working on THE NEXT. I'm also currently working on updating the Kamen Rider Series page. Do you think the information contained in our current wiki is sufficient in form? Do note I modified the list somewhat indicating some remarks about the show. Feel free to revert the edit since I feel the table has become somewhat unsightly.

I've seen the Japanese wiki for the Kamen Rider series and it.... is..... EXTENSIVE! see here: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BB%AE%E9%9D%A2%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%83%80%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BA

It contains information like basic concept, Henshin Pose, Rider count, up to casting. Even has the comprehensive media list of Kamen Rider, which makes our list look like cheap info. I plan to bring all this information to our wiki page, but I want to check with you if this is really worth it. I'd also like to get opinions for the pages aesthetic, because frankly, the current page looks ugly and messed up. Because after I'm down with this, the original wikipedia page for the Kamen Rider series will look like its contribution was done by non-fans.

[*Jess♥]

i say go for it.

aesthetics really has no place in a wiki type page.

you've done such good work on all of these, it is a responsibility to yourself to do it justice !

anyway, I've sent out a tweet about the work on 'the first' page.

I like what you did with those remarks as well. makes it a lot more interesting.

[durendal]

Skewing a little off topic, but is the discuss button disabled in the wiki page? I was recently editing the Kuuga page and I wanted to discuss the reviews Larz made and how it would fit in the wiki. But when I clicked on discuss, a 404 error occured. I pressume that this was intentionally disabled. If that's the case, then I will just manually create a separate topic for it. I would just like to get verification before I do so.

I also made a few minor changes in the main wiki page. Hope you don't mind.

[*Jess♥]

yeah, remember those problems we were having with the forum?

i disabled the wiki bridge because it was causing those issues.

feel free to make the topic.

as it's only a small group of us editing the pages, there's not much point in working hard to fix it.

edit: front page is looking good.

it was a good change.

[durendal]

I have arrived at the merchandise section and it will be a daunting task to complete all of it. Now, this, I really need help. I have already started the S.I.C. thread so it's just a matter of time before I finish it. But there are still others like the SH Figurarts, the Gashapon, Henshin Belts, and all the other card games. Just thinking about it now already overwhelms me.

Viewing the SIC wiki would already give you an idea of my vision. I don't want just a listing of merchandise like any ordinary wiki does. I want complete information, like release date, SRP, description, and yes, most importanly pictures. How will you appreciate the merchandise if you don't have pictures, right? This way, not only will the wiki provide information, it will also serve to encourage potential fans to purchase the merchandise via attractive pictures. And perhaps, someday, even reviews.

What I need would be a complete list of available merchandise. It's very fortunate that I was able to locate information about S.I.C.'s, probably because I'm also collecting it. But for others, I just need a list and I think I can find more information about it. Just give me the data and I'll consolidate it.

[*Jess♥]

unfortunately I know next to nothing about these things.

I am not sure how many people check in here, so perhaps it would be worth starting a post in the tokusatsu or kamen rider section?

it is a shame dekared is no longer around, he would probably be able to give you a lot of information.

edit:

I assume you have seen this page ? http://tamashii.jp/item/category.php?eid=00022

if not, it has some infor about figuarts as well and other stuff.

I just came across it, it was linked from the wikipedia page for S.I.C.

[durendal]

Yeah, I know that page. The description that I put in the SIC wiki are actually from that page. The Japanese wiki for the S.I.C. only lists the releases. This is getting exciting.

[durendal]

Sorry about this, and I know that we've discussed this countless times already, but how should we treat the "kamen" and "masked" term for the titles? I know that we will be using "Kamen" starting double since that is what is written in the title. But what about the older showa series, as well as the earlier heisei series? I've done the earlier series as "Masked" but mistakenly used "Kamen" for kuuga. Now I'm going to start with Agito and it just dawned on me that I'm using "Kamen" again despite the link is using "Masked". Am I making any sense?

Strange that all the pages for the showa riders uses the word "Kamen". So I take it that we keep this arrangement for the Showa riders.

I'm just asking this so that I won't have to correct the links later on. Like I always say, "when in doubt, ask".

[durendal]

Nevermind, I think I just answered my own question. Since Agito has "Masked Rider Agito" written in the title, it's obvious that we will be using "Masked Rider Agito". As for Kuuga, since no direct english translation was placed in the title, it's safe to presume that "Kamen Rider Kuuga" is the correct term. Besides, "Kamen Rider" was never once used or mentioned throughout the entire series.