Crazy thought

[largo]

Well seeing as no one is really posting right now I figure that posting my crazy ideas might get people thinking and subsequently posting.

Here it is if the warrior guyver were to just get plopped in to the DC universe how would he fair? The same question in the marvel universe. The thing that I keep thinking about is that all of the guyvers weapons are lethal, that would be a problem in the DCU but maybe not as much in the MU. Post your thoughts

[Sully]

Depends on who or what exactly appeared in the DC universe.

Lets say for arguement sakes we go all powerful, Dreadnought was the one to appear there. Or to have REAL fun Zagam. You're talking mainly the high end heroes who would have a chance.

You're talking extream fire power, regeneration, etc. Dreadnought though would probably not attack anyone unless attacked. Zagam on the other hand would be pure death.

[jedi-guyver]

A WG in marvel would be taking on galactic type characters like Adam warlock or an external. A normal Guyver would fit nicely in either comic universe

[Azaar]

From the DC perspective, their power levels are through the roof. Superman? Moves small planets. Wonder Woman? Magic, and there's nothing established to indicate how the Guyver in general would react to that. Batman? Well, he'll probably know and be able to communicate that the control medal is the weak point after some observation.

(( And if you think I'm giving the Bat too much credit... well, he is the guy who had a plan to take out the entire JLA if they got too dangerous. ))

Even a WG unit would have some problems if you're going to talk toeing up against some of DC's mightiest (or even some of their second-tier power level types). Jason might be able to give the top-tier guys like Superman, Captain Marvel, Martian Manhunter, and Green Lantern a go (courtesy of the Matrix) in the short term, but there are limits to that -- mostly of Jason's own making in his unwillingness to completely leave humanity behind to become more powerful.

In the end, there's not really much way to compare DC and Marvel for the sake of the Guyver, simply because both comics use such a drastically different power scale level. I can go all "gaming geek" with the DC Universe Role-Playing Game in the Science Lab forum if you guys like.

[jedi-guyver]

I've done a conversion of a Guyver into the marvel power grid and it goes a little something like this;

Intelligence: 2 (normal)

Strength: 5 (between 25 and 75 tons)

Speed: 3 (sub supersonic)

Durability: 5-6 ( bulletproof to superhuman)

Energy Projection: 5 (single type long range)* could argue that it is a level 6

Fighting skills: 2 (normal)

That gives a Guyver a 22 power score.

To give a comparison here's some well know heroes power scores

Captain America: 18

Wolverine: 20

Spider-man: 19

Iron Man: 33

Hulk: 24

So a normal Guyver would fit nicely in the Marvel Universe

[*zeo]

I'd up the fighting skills, mind a Guyver has Spiderman like speed and reflexes and can sense when a energy attack is targeting them as well as be hyper aware of their environment. While the CM also kicks in if the host fails to respond to a threat.

The ability to regenerate probably safely puts durability at 6.

[jedi-guyver]

Fighting skills is most likely a 3 then at the base, and could increase depending on the users fighting expirence as could intelligence.

The way Marvel has the power grid set up, regeneration is a level 4(this is wolverines durability level) so I'm not so sure it would up to a level 6.

That being said, with a base level of 23, a Guyver would be a contender in the Marvel Universe. And imagine what could happen if you gave a unit to someone who is already enhanced, let's say for instance Spiderman, Ms. marvel, Luke Cage, or Graviton! Even on just Captain America, his power base would be about 30

[*zeo]

Wolverine, without his regeneration and enhanced skeleton is just as easy to harm as any human. So the fact he rates 4 is a testament to how much his regeneration is a factor.

While the Guyver starts out with a much higher base durability before we even factor the regeneration ability. Though the Guyver regeneration may not be as quick as Wolverines, it has more potential as the Guyver can regenerate as long as the CM remains intact and has a few cells left to work with. Also Guyver regeneration has no limit as energy is continuously siphoned from the Boost Dimension but Wolverine can use up his regeneration if he keeps on getting hurt.

This is besides the defensive factor as a Guyver can do things like use the Pressure Cannon to deflect attacks and serve as a partial shield. While the Gigantic can generate a barrier field. Not to mention at activation the worm hole event horizon serves as a temporary blast shield.

So at least a 5+...

[Azaar]

Even on just Captain America, his power base would be about 30

The thing, though, is that when the Guyver activates (and zeo or Sully can correct me if I'm mistaken on this), that whole "strength of 100 men" figure is predicated on peak human potential of the host. So really, everything the Guyver does is based off basically being Captain America to begin with, just without some of the really cool stuff (like how he can purge toxins from his system before they can build up, meaning he can be pretty tireless), which is a large part of how he can run a mile in something like 73 seconds, or lift about half a ton or so unaided.

[jedi-guyver]

True but his intelligence and fighting abilities are above that of a normal human. So in the same way Lisker was way better than Sho, Captain America would have a higher starting starting point than a normal human.

It is actually a 27 not 30, just double checked.

Zeo, I don't disagree with you at all. I also think a guyvers durability is at least a 5+, it was just that regeneration wasn't the main factor

[Sully]

Worth pointing out the Op's point though, this isn't a normal unit, it's a Warrior Unit.

[jedi-guyver]

Intelligence: 2

Strength: 7

Speed: 5-7 (teleportation)

Durability: 7

Energy Projection: 6

Fighting Skills: 3

Making a Warrior Guyver have a level 32 power base.

[largo]

Wouldn't intelligence be maybe one or two points higher as a type 1 warrior unit gives the hosts telepathy?

[Sully]

Wouldn't intelligence be maybe one or two points higher as a type 1 warrior unit gives the hosts telepathy?

Not all hosts, there is a reason why Jason is and Stephen is not.

[largo]

I thought stephen was a type 2 unit?

[Destroyer Guyver]

Wouldn't intelligence be maybe one or two points higher as a type 1 warrior unit gives the hosts telepathy?

Not all hosts, there is a reason why Jason is and Stephen is not.

If I remember Correctly Jason "Type 1" unit was for a Gen to use so would have enhanced their already present mental abilities, while Stephens "Type 2" was purely for combat/Kavzar use so didn't need the psionics.

[Azaar]

Wouldn't intelligence be maybe one or two points higher as a type 1 warrior unit gives the hosts telepathy?

Not all hosts, there is a reason why Jason is and Stephen is not.

If I remember Correctly Jason "Type 1" unit was for a Gen to use so would have enhanced their already present mental abilities, while Stephens "Type 2" was purely for combat/Kavzar use so didn't need the psionics.

Fiona has a psychic link with Jason -- it's the closest to telepathic ability she has, with or without her Unit (which is also Type I prototype, like Jason's was before the Matrix enhancements). It takes her activating the Warrior Gigantic Jason has and becoming Valkyrie before she can access limited telepathic (and telekinetic) capability. I believe that Jason's telepathic ability is the result of the Matrix interfacing with his Warrior Guyver CM and enhancing it.

[Sully]

It's not that it's a Type 1 unit either vs the Type 2.

I'm not going to give it away yet as it will be a developing story, but there is a reason why Jason as a host is different to most other WG hosts.

I'll give you a clue ---> Faye.

[*zeo]

Telepathy doesn't really change intelligence, it just changes level of awareness and what kind of information can be accessed. So applies more to tactical awareness.

However, Guyver Units do effect the host brain in some ways. While it's cannon that the brain itself is not altered, the Unit does clearly help the host process information. The Hyper Sensors, for example, provide information to the host that the human brain isn't evolved to handle. Also the ability of the Guyver to tell friend from foe is clearly linked to the CM"s link to the host brain. The only time this has been shown to fail is when the host brain was damaged.

So we can basically conclude that the CM works in symbiosis with the host brain, working together for enhanced functionality. Allowing the host to be hyper aware of the environment and during combat it helps speed up host thinking processes to the point that most opponents look like they're moving in slow motion and the CM can assist the host responses.

While this is clearly a enhancement, it doesn't really make the host significantly smarter other than being able to respond faster and process information that may otherwise overload the host mind. Also the effect is only there when the unit is active and only maxes out during combat.

WG CM does take this further though, since it keeps a working copy of the host mind. So even if the host brain is damaged it can still tell friend from foe. While this alone still doesn't make the host more intelligent. The more powerful CM running a copy of the host mind and working in symbiosis with the host mind means the host and CM basically work together as one brain.

This is in part why a WG is so much faster than a regular Guyver and also part of the reason why the host never tires and can avoid sleep while the unit is active.

It's also the basis for the WG battle collective, as the CM can combine the brain power and awareness of all networked compatible WG CM's to form a hive mind that allows all effective units to work together and respond to the battle field far more efficiency than they could separately.

So IMO you can basically add a point to the intelligence for a single WG host and 2 to 3 while in a battle collective...

[largo]

Zeo that is a much more thought out version of what i was going for.

[McAvoy]

DC universe would stomp any iteration of Guyver. The thing is that Superman is rated in the quadrillion ton range. He is durable to withstand those types of attacks. Nothing Guyver can do will harm him in anyway. Maybe the sonic emitters will damage his ears because that is in fact a decent weak point of his.

Marvel on the other hand even a regular Guyver fits in. He would be a Class 40 in strength. An unofficial Class system which measures strength in tons. As in Class 40 is 40 tons. Class 100 is 100 tons.

Of course writers surpass this alot. Such as Hulk or Thor being far more than capable of lifting things heavier than 100 tons or 250 tons. Though I heard the Hulk buster armor was rated at 175 tons

Which means even a Warrior Guyver would be on the scale of the much higher beings. Dreadnought would on the scale of Thanos or higher.

[*zeo]

DC universe would stomp any iteration of Guyver.

Well, not all DC characters are extremely powerful... All the human characters, except for those who access alien super weapons like the Green Lantern Power Ring, would all be below the Guyver power range.

Some of the Meta Humans are also fairly limited, like the version of Starman that was a living human star could only lift up to around 50 tons and fly around Mach 2.5 in atmosphere and he was still more powerful than a good number of other Meta-Humans... Much like the Marvel Mutants, the DC Meta Humans range from barely any power to rivaling Superman... So there are still a range of characters that could be pitted against the Guyver...

Not everyone in the DC Universe is in Superman's power range any more than everyone in Marvel's Universe are in the Hulk, Thors, Silver Surfer, etc power range.

For example, Cyborg vs a Guyver would probably be a good match up...