Can Dreadnought...

[exscaped_pyscho]

I was just wondering if dreadnought can view past events without actually traveling through time? I know Dreadnought can stop time or exist within a single instant of time, but could he view events in the past with a variation of this ability?

The idea popped into my head after I was watching Card Captors. It was the episode where Sakura used the 'Return' card to view the past.

[guyverfanatic]

That would be a cool ability for Dread to have!

[exscaped_pyscho]

That's what I thought too. Imagine being able to witness major events in history first hand! Or you could find out what you're girlfriend was up to when you were out of town

[*zeo]

Temporal perception would be within the range of abilities granted by the Matrix but the human mind isn't really designed to process such information except in an abstract way.

So it would be of limited use to Jason and even then he would have to specifically try or desire such information otherwise the Matrix won't volunteer it.

Consider for example a lot of our ability to interact with our world is with our sense of what is present from our memory but if you can perceive any point in time as if it was the present then you can lose yourself and become lost in time.

And it would be counter productive for the Matrix to give Jason a perception he can't properly use and would most likely confuse him on its own.

[exscaped_pyscho]

If it's within the matrix's capabilities, couldn't the matrix perform the information processing and display the targeted time period as a hologrphic display? Kinda like watching TV only what you're watching really happened at some point in the past. Jason would have to have a specific location and time in mind of coarse. But the Matrix could theoretically do the work for Jasn and merly present it to him. If not by itself then perhaps in combination with the other matrix Jason has in his possession.

[*zeo]

Do the work for Jason?

Yes and no, the host brain still has to process the information and adding temporal information to the torrent of information the Dreadnought already gets from his Unit could easily confuse and/or lead to information overload.

Remember the Matrix and the Unit basically bring the Host desires into reality, so unless he's very specific in his request he could easily get more than he bargained for.

And using Holograms doesn't really avoid the issue unless it is used to filter the flow of information but then you have the problem that details can be missed, which still makes it of limited use.

And again this would be something Jason would have to specifically want, after all information about the past is usually not something required for battle, etc. As the Dreadnought's senses are usually focused on the present or the immediate future to predict his opponents actions.

[exscaped_pyscho]

Actually what I was thinking of is the day Fiona (the real Fiona that is) died. I was wondering one day if Jason would ever wish to know what happened to her or her body. It came to me when I thought about what would happen if the real Fiona returned like Jenny did. That maybe Alkanphel took her as a method to get control of Jason after he'd finished his role as temporal savior. And since Jenny was thought dead, the possibility of Fiona's survival is there. I just thought it would make an interesting plot twist. Which would Jason choose Fiona he was going to marrie or Fiona he did marrie

But back to the viewing of past events. If it would be difficult to view the past utilizing the Matrix bonded to him, do to the potential for information overload, wouldn't it be easier to use the other Matrix as the focus for the temporal viewing?

And on another note; It's been stated that Jason can quantum compute during combat and has even been demonstrated in the battle with both WG Vamore and the Eliminator. But Jason has also shown to have some precognative abilities beyond this, such as when he had a bad feeling about leaving Fiona to hunt down his sister. So, following this line of thought, can Jason actually predict future events beyond the immedate future in greater detail or only in a vague intuitive fashion? This type of enhanced intuition has it's merits but I think that actually viewing the future could prove to be a greater asset then mere intuition. Be it mundane or superhuman, intuition can only get you so far.

[*zeo]

If Jason really wanted to see the events of that day again he probably can but Information overload would be a problem no matter what since the host brain still has to process that information no matter what.

You can't have something else do the processing without losing a lot of information in the process. Like sending out a scout, no matter how good they are at describing a scene nothing beats seeing it for yourself.

Or like looking at a picture of particular place, you only perceive what that picture shows but that leaves out a heck of a lot of details that only being there and seeing for yourself would provide.

Add that the human brain has trouble processing information from a temporal standpoint and that puts a real limit on what Dreadnought can perceive.

Now looking back at a particular moment has a similar problem as looking at a picture, he may have to repeatedly look through that moment before discovering something he wasn't already aware of.

Besides really, the only thing that would even make Jason want to relive that day would be to actually meet an Alive Fiona, which would make him question what happened on that day and thus he would investigate. Otherwise it makes no sense as no one wants to relive the worst day of their life.

Predicting the future has a similar problem of how much information Jason can process but also has the added problem that every time he acts upon that he also changes the predictions. So even this perception is limited.

Like Nicholas Cage's movie "Next", each time he acted on a prediction he had to do it again and again until he reached the end. Each prediction was only good for the one event changed, so additional predictions needed to be done to map out the correct path.

[Aranor]

One also has to consider the fact that he does have Fiona in his life again. Why would he wonder. Saying this fiona just doesn't fit right I want the real one would be a nasty burned bridge. Unless of course she died in which case I would have to be any piece of matter, organic or not, in his way. Then he might persue what hapened to her.

Zeo, a question, why wouldn't the spare matrix be able to offer the hologram? When Greg desired the house on his island be reconstructed I am sure it did not require his mind to process the molecules to form the wood firbers to make the beams etc.

But again, the need to have the information must first be put into play.

Also, having a hologram playing while you walk around in it might have other drawbacks. Greg sneaking up to slap you on the back, A newly formed Alkanphel appearing behind you fully charged, Gopher holes, all while you are oblivious to the current world.

[*zeo]

Zeo, a question, why wouldn't the spare matrix be able to offer the hologram?

Since I never said the second Matrix couldn't offer the Hologram - You pretty much answered your own question with the matter of information flow... Basically however the Matrix presents the information it will either risk information overload, remember also these Holograms aren't limited to just optical illusion as they can fool even hyper sensors, or limit it to such an extent he could easily miss whatever you may want him to find.

You have to remember, the Matrix is already enhancing Jason's perceptions but at his core he is still just human and as such has specific human limitations.

For him to perceive more than he is already could very well require him to alter how his brain works so he could process all that information and not get lost in it all.

We also can't underestimate the difficulty and dangers of extending our time perception beyond the limits we are normally use to.

For example, just take away light and float someone in water and they will no longer be able to tell up from down.

Perceiving time outside our normal perception would be far more difficult.

Never mind the emotional strain of having to relive a traumatic event, which combined with the perception limitation would most likely require Jason to have to view the same scenes from different angles over and over, possibly even thousands of times, before he finds something he didn't know about before.

[Aranor]

As far as the current story goes I would agree with you. Outside of the story I would argue the old perception of the human only currently uses 10% of their brain......consiously.....

And the unocking of a couple telekinetic abilities might not be anything compared to what we are capable of. Do not forget, while the matrix is magnificient it is still designed to work with creators. And it in itself is not sentient, though close enough, it may not have the ability to fully push a human. Creating something to fight the warrior guyver female (Warrior guyver = creator technology) healing Alkanphel...creator technology and possibly common knowledge taught in their version of kindergarden. And while humans are supposedly creator tech, or at least creator guided evolution, their technology was not devised to work with them, and their lack of involvement in the creator world has led to a lack of need for human compatable tech. Kinda like running windows 95 on a Mac G5.....not gonna push it to the max. So there might be room for improvement.

[*zeo]

\Outside of the story I would argue the old perception of the human only currently uses 10% of their brain......consiously......

Fair enough point but I have to point out that still doesn't solve the perception limitation of a human mind, whether we use 10% or 100% of our brain's capacity doesn't matter if our brain isn't designed to process that sort of information.

Remember our brains are the result of evolution and as such, just like our body, it performs certain tasks well and others not so well.

In fact recent studies have shown that our brains follow a fairly set pattern, which is so similar among us that it may be possible some day to have a machine read our minds.

On the other hand, the Warrior Unit CM does have a more rebust interface with the host brain than a standard unit's. In fact it could be seen as an extension of the host mind.

So you could have the Matrix augment to some extent Jason's mental capabilities. But only while in Armor and he may not retain the information in its entirety in his human form.

[McAvoy]

I understand what you are saying zeo. The human brain is specifically designed to handle current information and has a harder time even remembering past events except for key points. Let alone seeing into the future especially with the limitless possibilities of the future.

[Aranor]

Any of you seen Rainman? It was based on a true story, forget the guys name, can probly google it. Anyway, the guy could not forget things. I remember he was asked what day a boxing event happened some twenty years before and eh was able to answer tuesday the 5th (Or something like that). The drawback was his body was physically weak and his motor skills were lacking.

Then you got cases of people performing super human feats such as rolling a car over and such. The matrix should have no problem rewiring the body to allow both of these feats possible. The physical aspect has been implimented but the mental, while some, has only been tapped.

[*zeo]

Sorry, I'm a strong believer in human potential too, but none of those examples shows a single person's brain doing anything it doesn't do for all of us.

Even if we ignore the serious mental handicaps such examples also show, people like real Rainman for example only really show someone with a type of super memory.

But memory is just something our brains were designed to use. It's not a demonstration of any trait that would let us process information that we didn't evolve the capability to do so.

Simply put, perceiving time outside of the normal parameters we are use to is not something the brain was designed to ever do.

Thus having something like super memory will not solve that problem.

For example it is impossible for anyone to have more than one line of thought at a time. Consequently, anyone who multi-tasks is only splitting up their perception among multuple tasks and thus doesn't fully pay attention to any one of them.

So even using 100% of brain power will not change that limitation.

In fact scans of the brain shows the more we concentrate on a problem the less we are consciously aware as our brain diverts resources to solve the problem.

Our brains still have quite a way to evolve yet before we can truly start comprehending the true mysteries of the universe.

Hell, most people have trouble just thinking in 3D. While any concept of true time involves 4D or more.

Really, the only way the human mind could handle temporal perception is if it is kept in a linear and finite format. Anything involving true interactions of time, like movement and interaction through 3D space like complexity, would be totally beyond our brain's ability to comprehend except in abstract terms.

Idea's like parallel realities and alternate timelines is just the tip of the iceburg when dealing with non-linear time and infinite time concepts.

For perspective on our mental capabilities lets look how far we have come, for example recent genetic evidence not only indicates our brains are still evolving but that the last two big changes in that evolution coincided with significant changes in how we think.

The first showing up just after modern humans showed up and coincides with the development of agriculture and the next genetic change occured about 5000 years ago, coinciding with the development of modern civilization.

But our brains, like our bodies were designed for our survival. Like the ability to see color lets us tell what is safe to eat, language developed so we could work together, etc.

So we have come a long way from our primitive ancestors but just because we have started to scratch the surface of cosmic truths doesn't mean we are yet evolved enough to handle it all.

As it is we are pushing the limits of the brains we are presently stuck with.

Really, it's not just a matter of unlocking the brain's potential but also how our brains are designed to work. The way we think and process information is hardwired into the very shape and design of our brains.

This was the point about scientist developing machines that will one day be able to read our thoughts. The way our brains work are so similar, despite the differences in personality, that information can be drawn from it because we basically store and process information in the exact same way. Thus providing machines with a set pattern that will allow them to decode our brains signals and literally see what we are thinking about.

So just using more of the same will not let us do things that the brain isn't yet designed to handle.

Like the old saying goes, there is a difference between wisdom and knowledge. Having all the knowledge in the world does not a wise man make!

[exscaped_pyscho]

One thing that you're over looking here. Jason's mind isn't run of the mill ordinary. His mind has been upgraded, evolved or altered by the merging with the matrix. I'm not saying he can know everything that has happened because he sees all past events. But tuning his quantum perceptions to a specific time and place to view an event, should be well within his capabilities. What I am suggesting isn't stepping out of time and looking back, more like creating a window into the past. Trying to see everything that happened in the past would of coarse be like a screen door on a submarine (a good way to drowned). But if you knew that something important took place on the morning of Sunday December 7, 1941 I think Dreadnought could view the events on a localized area without over stepping his abilities in the slightest. Viewing the past would be a hell've lot easier than time travel and he can do that. When you think about it all anyone sees is the past anyways. When someone looks at the moon their seeing the moon as it was a couple seconds ago not as it is now. Now if Jason created a quantum wormhole and cloaked or concealed it he could 'look' through the worm hole into the past. Worm holes after all don't just go from place to place but time to time as well. Space and Time can both be manipulated.

As for Jason's mind being overloaded by the information; The Warrior Guyver units all have saftey protocals to prevent scensory overload it's safe to say that the Matrix has the same kinda technoligy installed within it to prevent temporal overload. And Jason is part matrix after all. Not to mention his mind has been altered fairly extensivly already. You don't get funky mind powers without some serious redecorating upstairs.

[Aranor]

Actually, we are not seeing the past, we are seeing the position of whatever the photons bounced off last. I guess you could consider that the past. (If you were to drive to the moon you would see its position change as you approached should you drive fast enough)

I am saying Jason's mental abitlities could be much further explored.

As for your port hole (Little safer than screen door) you are mistaken. Humans do not look into the past. They look at experienced data saved. I can not think and see what you had for breakfast this morning. For him to view the past, it has been explained how he got to the past, quite the troublesome task, I presume this would need to be done to open the window. I agree he could view the events while being in the current time stream, but opening the window is beyond his units abilities. Perhaps the second matrix could recreate the teleporter to link with him to do such a thing but then you still have the NEED to do so must arrive.

What I would like to see would be Jason focus on a more telepathic level similar to the Zoalords. Perhaps combining either zoanoid or human or both attacks to aid him for a more focused fight.

[*zeo]

Aranor is correct, the human brain doesn't really perceive anything outside of an eternal present. Our sense of past is limited just to memory of the past and our sense of future is even more limited to little more than imagination.

In fact it is really hard to really emphasis how limited human perception of time really is as it would be for a fellow blind man to explain to other blind men what it would be like to see.

There really aren't appropriate words to properly describe the gulf between what we perceive and what a true perception of time encompasses.

But let's clarify some facts of the character...

One thing that you're over looking here. Jason's mind isn't run of the mill ordinary. His mind has been upgraded, evolved or altered by the merging with the matrix.

Nope, haven't overlooked that at all. Point of fact is Jason's brain is exactly the same as it was before he bonded to the Unit.

You're just confusing how the unit augments him via the link his mind has with the Unit and the Matrix.

Remember we have said repeatedly Jason will not allow himself to be perminently altered.

So all the so called funky Matrix Powers is because the Matrix is linked to him so it responds to his commands directly. Jason himself has not be altered outside of that link and implanting of Unit and Matrix elements into his body.

In otherwords Jason's abilities are technological, not biological based.

I'm not saying he can know everything that has happened because he sees all past events. But tuning his quantum perceptions to a specific time and place to view an event, should be well within his capabilities. What I am suggesting isn't stepping out of time and looking back, more like creating a window into the past.

Again this does not solve the problem that doing that filters/censors the information, making such an ability little better than just looking at a recording of the events of that day.

And quantum wormholes could very well effect the past by their very presence never mind that they may instead be diverted to a parallel reality in which case the information gained by that method would be useless.

As for Jason's mind being overloaded by the information; The Warrior Guyver units all have saftey protocals to prevent scensory overload it's safe to say that the Matrix has the same kinda technoligy installed within it to prevent temporal overload.

Which again leaves you with filtering and censoring of information. Never mind you forget the same safety protocols could very well prevent Jason from properly using that ability for the exact reason his mind could not properly handle it.

Leaving all the information it does provide him suspect or at the very best limited.

Remember, Dreadnought's abilities may be amazing but by no means was he ever intended to be a god character. So true omniponence is not one of his powers.

Again, this is not to say he couldn't do something like this just that don't expect much from it.

Hell, even the psychic guy on the Deadzone TV series doesn't get all the clues in one sitting either.

[exscaped_pyscho]

I never ment to imply that Jason is omnipotent. I wouldn't want him to become anymore powerful. I was just expressing my opinion on the level of quantum based abilities that Dreadnought could achieve. I agree that Jason will more than likely never utilize this ability, or even have need of it. Basically I was putting myself in the shoes of Jason, and one thing I would do if I were him is explore the past to find the true history, or rather the true sequence of events that took place in history. For example who wouldn't like to see what Jesus was like? Or, depending on your beliefs, if he really existed at all. Now assuming you had the ability to see the past wouldn't you want to look?

I know that this ability wouldn't reveal everything. What I was looking for was conformation of some temporal veiwing ability. Kinda like in the movie Déjà Vu. Where they can see the past but altering it is beyond their conventianal ability. Since the ability to time travel is now opened to Jason I thought a simpler ability such as viewing the past would be quite within his abilities. If only on a localized level.

[Aranor]

Quantum computing will only get you so far. To realistically percieve the past he would need to go there. either entirely or open a worm hole to see through. Shoul dhe have the time to stand atop a mountain, watch the sun sent and ponder the mysteries of the universe I would agree he could do this. But then doing so alters the past itself. Any air passing through the wormhols does not get breathed by said insectes floating around which do not get eaten by said birds etc. And any air coming from the present brings with it any viruses and such in a sense, sending the flesh eating virus back to the days of Jesus. Not such a good thing. (Maybe not exactly but you get my drift) Being there entirely, well, we have already seen what that brough.

[exscaped_pyscho]

I still believe that viewing the past, if only on a localized area, would be easier than actually traveling through time. Traveling through time would warp reality and create a paradox, were as viewing the past would mearly cause a slight temporal ripple that wouldn't be as dangerous or damaging. I'll try to vocalize my point of view a little better; I'm not suggesting that Jason become all knowing not in the slightest. I'm suggesting that he should be able to see a specific area at a specific time in the past. I don't think the informational overload would be too substancial by viewing, say, an alley exactly forty eight hours ago. It would be considerably harder to view multiple areas or even moving his perception from one point to another could be too much for him. But viewing a specific location at a specific time should theoretically be possible. Especially if he keeps this form of perception away from his own mind, and centered in the matrix. Think of it as requesting/ordering the Matrix to make a recording of an even that accured in the past and then display it to Jason (Either through the connection in his unit or vissually as a holographic picture. It'd be nothing more than a movie stored within the matrix and shown to Jason at his command. If the guy can break an allie down into their basic quantum essence and absorb them, even for a short period, he should be capable as something as simple as this. After all with this method the matrix would be doing all the heavy lifting, instead of Jason himself. The fact of the matter is, since Quantum Machanics hasn't trully been solved, their is an infinate variation of possible methods that Jason could use to achieve the desired effect. Now add the Matrixes ability to actually quantum compute to the equation and you'd get at least one method of achieving this goal without altering Jason or driving him insane, in my opinion.

[Aranor]

Either viewing a location or going there would mean connecting two different times. Both the some only one has a smaller hole. Something needs to be there to view it.

[*zeo]

Temporal physics is a dangerous minefield, why do you think physicists are always flip-flopping on whether it should be possible or not and why most just stick with not possible because they don't want to think about it?

There are even end of the world scenarios that deal with just creating a time viewing portal!

Messing with conservation of energy and cause & effect is not something to be taken lightly, even by a being with powers like Dreadnought's.

So even if you suspend the idea on whether Jason could handle the massive flow of information such viewing would involve, the physics itself throws wrench after wrench at the idea.

Basically just viewing the past could possibly alter it for example, just like quantum physics thought experiment with the cat in the box. The moment you view the event you, just by viewing, alter it.

Never mind all the alternate timelines from all the possible realities he would also have to shift through.