Test Subject Zoanoids

[Guest Jupiter]

I noticed Malmot at the beginning of guyver, who was running away with the Guyver Units, he looked liked his skin had fallen off his muscles and his white fur had fallen out. Perhaps his body was breaking down because he was on his last few days?

What would cause a test subject to die from their unstable optimizations?

Examples being to my questions on test subject optimization.

Liver, heart, kidney, etc. random organ failure. Abnormal cancer.

Just curious on how they die within a week or less.

[Shin Mefilas]

Well the theory I had was that its linked to the new genetic information implanted during optimisation, part of the prossess is getting the the persons body to accept these the new addistions without causeing an immunologic reaction as with blood transfusions and organ replasment. The defernce here is that because the zoanoid is altered on genetic level if an immunologic reaction occers their whole body begins breaking down. This could be cause by the natural killer cells or NK cells, which rather then destroying forun cells attack compromised host cells such as tumor cells. The NK cells start  attacking every cell in the zoanoids body because they dont recognise them possible because their MHC antigens (the thing that allows NK cell to recognise normal healthy cells) have been altered.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Waferdanos

[*V Guyver]

There was art in past data files showing what Malmot was supposed to look like. A lot more hair on his body, especially the face. I don't have a copy, anyone else do? 

Anyways, he's body was breaking down, and his sickly appearance compared to other zoanoids suggest so. Even in human form, he looked fairly weak, not just dirty. 

[Larz Zahn]

I think his human form was deteriorating as well. He had blots and splotches on his skin around the face and arms. (at least in the ova.)

I don't have sciency words or anything to back this up, just my opinion, but i view malmots condition like that of a very premature baby. His body just wasn't finished developing enough to survive on its own, much like a baby would be if the infant was pulled out of its womb a month or so ahead of schedule.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Larz Zahn

[*Jess♥]

his cells had been corrupted. The process of creating a zoanoid alters the cells mechanisms to allow replacement information (probably in the form of a nucleic acid) to alter the function of the cells.

The process of implanting these mechanisms possibly occurs by first removing the defences of the cells and compromising their integrity by removing their immune functions amongst other forms of protection. We know that Cronos had a cover of Max Pharmaceutical. We know they were at the leading edge of medical techniques. therefore they no doubt were working intimately with the body's own repair functions. taking down barriers and then building them back up afterwards. finalising the zoanoid creation process is probably the process of rebuilding the cells structural integrity and the body's immune mechanisms. It is possible in extreme cases, they have even deactivated the cell division mechanism and may be why marmot/test-type/guinea-pig looked to be suffering from degenerative disease. his tissues were dying and had no replacement/repair process.

It's also clear that his zoaform was not completed. The parts of the zoaform process that were completed were to do with muscle and bone growth but they hadn't gotten round to completing the information for skin alteration. It appears that his skin falls away and is not changed into zoanoid skin. well I have to backstep a bit because it is clear he regains his skin when he turns back into a human. perhaps there is an alternate process for when regaining human form. it would be different from normal human cell division and this may be why cronos scientists deactivated the normal division process. to commandeer that process for use in the transformation and restoration processes?

[*V Guyver]

I don't think it was just processing for perfection. They may of had the processing in stages to help control the subjects (Before the mind control was implemented, seemed he was free while not complete), there might also be a time frame to go into stages because the body might not handle the processing. Whichever the case, everything Chronos did was likely on purpose and meant to serve as insurance. malmat only escaped because of Agito, and I doubt he Malmot escaped so effectively without Agito doing his usual sabotage at Max Pharmaceuticals. 

[Larz Zahn]

It could be that he was mentally free because there was no Zoalords in range.

[Guest Jupiter]

This really has answered a lot of my questions.Thank you, everyone.

[*V Guyver]

It could be that he was mentally free because there was no Zoalords in range.

Doubtful, barcus was already in the mountain area, and under complete control of zoanoids in that area, as well as in town. While in the mountain highway and outskirts of town, he was still in range. So this led me to think that part of the process actually involved bringing out vulnerability to telepathy... then again, he could actually be a experiment that might of been classified as a lost number. Not enough information to make any of this solid though. 

[*Jess♥]

It could be that he was mentally free because there was no Zoalords in range.

Doubtful, barcus was already in the mountain area, and under complete control of zoanoids in that area, as well as in town. While in the mountain highway and outskirts of town, he was still in range.

I'd estimate the area is at least 60km away from mount minakami.

[Larz Zahn]

How far was the lake where Sho first turned Guyver from Japan HQ? Guyot was in contact with Genzo in the first enzyme fight.

[*Jess♥]

oops. I got my distances wrong. the area where narisawa is likely to be is at least 180 km from mount minakami.

 

The lake was at mount narisawa. I had a location for it a while back but i can't seem to find ti anymore. it is near tokyo anyway. has to be.

[Larz Zahn]

Something else came to mind. Just because a Zoalord is in range, doesn't mean they know every move that every zoanoid is making at all times. They may be telepaths but they're not omniscient, its not a passive power. It has to be turned on, and directed. Even after the units got stolen it was a while before Guyot intervened.

[*guyverfan]

It could be that he was mentally free because there was no Zoalords in range.

... then again, he could actually be a experiment that might of been classified as a lost number. Not enough information to make any of this solid though. 

 

didn't gyuot question agito's uncle of his branch trying to create lost number's in the ova?

[Larz Zahn]

Not that i remember. Guyot mocked genzo cause genzo said that he finally produced a hyper zoanoid.

[*V Guyver]

Yes, in the OVA Guyot belittled all of Genzo's work (very good at making common Zoanoids, but fell behind Hyper Zoanoid development.) 

I had no idea about the distance... wait at that distance, how does Sho and Tetsuro manage to walk there and back in the same afternoon? Also, I recall only a day between the murder at the start by Malmot, up till him going near that lake and getting blown up. I suppose it's nitpicking, but wonder if the Mangaka actually gave thought to the distances. 

[*V Guyver]

Something else came to mind. Just because a Zoalord is in range, doesn't mean they know every move that every zoanoid is making at all times. They may be telepaths but they're not omniscient, its not a passive power. It has to be turned on, and directed. Even after the units got stolen it was a while before Guyot intervened.

Sorry for the double post, but felt it necessary. I gave this some thought, and realized, that with such an important rare artifacts as the G Units, no zoalord would waste time to search it out. Provided they were there, and likely Barcus was considering that was his personal research facility. Never once have we've seen a true zoalord have trouble contacting his own subordinates without it being range limited, a lost unit, or another zoalord blocking his telepathy. Maybe zoalords are not in constant contact, but if they need be found, it would be a simple thing to reach out to them. It's as if Zoalords have some method to identify the brain waves... though that rings the question on how the telepathy mechanics work. But so far all this has led me to think that it's likely a processing part or as Yuki suggest, a distance issue. The only other theory I can come up with is that perhaps he might of been classified as a lost number had his processing been finished.

[*Jess♥]

I had no idea about the distance... wait at that distance, how does Sho and Tetsuro manage to walk there and back in the same afternoon? Also, I recall only a day between the murder at the start by Malmot, up till him going near that lake and getting blown up. I suppose it's nitpicking, but wonder if the Mangaka actually gave thought to the distances. 

What? I don't understand the question...

 

How did they manage to walk it? because they live there.

Testuro and Shou lived in Narisawa near Tokyo.

 

Mount Minakami and Tekeshiro are over 180 km away.

where does the difficulty come in?

[*V Guyver]

Maybe I'm not viewing this stuff correctly. From the way everything is edited, it always looked like distance wasn't too big of an issue. Maybe my perceptions are off. 

[*Jess♥]

I always got the impression that mount Minakami was a quite a far way away.

don't you remember Shou's ride with Murakami, they got to discuss a LOT in that journey. I mean, the amount they must have talked about, that journey must have been at least 2 hours.

besides, if mount Minakami was anywhere close by, then wouldn't Murakami have just pointed and said "yeah it's just over there"?

I thought it was pretty clear that mount Minakami was far away merely by the fact that Murakami had to TAKE Shou there. If it was close by, Shou would already know the location.

It's not like they were shown frequently travelling from mt Minakami to their school or anything, they had to shack up with the Onuma's. There had to be a reason for that...

The only other time they travelled that journey was by teleportation. Shou teleported them using the relic.

[*V Guyver]

yup, do remember that. also started to recall that Sho was chasing that truck his dad was stuck in. 

[Larz Zahn]

I got curious about something and broke out my viz volumes to check. Sho and Murakami encountered the fake Mizuki and the location of relics point, and started driving that way at night. 2nd volume. In the 3rd volume you see Sho and Murakami outside relics point. Its day time and if i had to guess from the way the sky was drawn, I'd say early morning. That's a long drive!

[*Jess♥]

nice observation! I hadn't thought about that factor.

[Larz Zahn]

Another thing i noticed. Sorry of this its nitpicking but I'm a little crazy about details like these. Lost numbers were not originally immune to a Zoalords effect. Aptom to begin with could hear a Zoalords commands and had to obey. Save goes for solmun and dyme. But Aptom was a unique case, he always had a harder time hearing Zoalords. But it was only him. And it was after he got reprocessed did he become immune. After the battle at relics point, the rebel scientists opted to become lost numbers to be free from cronus. Because cronus kept their scientists in line by making them drug or chemical dependent. They under went risky optimization to purposly be immune to control, it was a goal, not a side effect.

[*V Guyver]

Yes, that's true. Though I wonder, I remember that part of the reason lost numbers are not trusted was precisely because they were all weakened in that link to zoalords to some degree. Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Anyone can confirm or deny this so we can be clear about it in the future?