Guyver manga observations - chapters 21-28 (volume 4)

[Aether]

What a great volume! loads of story to explain what exactly has been going on!

plot points:

the guyver group is confronted by more Enzyme 2's, Muarakami is forced to transform and fight

Murakami reveals his involvement with Cronos, Professor Yamaura's inside rebellion at Cronos and the origins of the Zoalords and Zoanoids by the creators along with the human reaction to fusing with the Guyver unit.

he also reveals the concept of the 'Super Exsistance' - a zoalord with a guyver unit!!

Guyot's plan is thus revealed.

Guyot vs. Murakami !!!! + G3 vs more E2's

question:

why would Takaya make the world's saviour Sho Fukamachi wear a shirt that says 'bent' ?

observations:

• Yohei comments on Shizu ... ' Shizu has learnt much in the past 3 years, she can be of great service to you master Agito''
  

in the tv series it expaned by saying she has some nursing skills, but again it says she has learnt much....

so what did she learn? is she already battle ready at this point? is that why she has seemingly been comfortable with becoming Grizelda?

• i think that Murakami's Zoaform is possibly the best character design apart from the guyver suit.
  

in viz murakami transforms and says ''zoalord transfer!!'' in chuang yi ''zoalord transform!!'' (and in the tv series ep14 he says ''Theriomorph!'' ?? - so where did that come from?????)

• in viz we have the creators experimenting for 250 million years and in chuang yi we have a few billion years... was the planet even formed to sustain any kind of life at all then??? or is it saying they terraformed the planet to sustain themselves and their biological lifeforms??? to be honest even if it says billions of years in the original manga script Takaya is pushing it a bit far!
  

• in viz it explains again that 'guyver' means ''beyond the norm'' which is somewhat correct as we discussed before, but in chuang yi it says the creators referred to the human guyver wearers as ''ones who went against the paradigm'' and that made me think because of what Murakami had just been explaining....
  

the concept of consciousness control and free thought is major here... the Creators have mind control power over zoalord and zoanoid and Zoalords have that power over Zoanoids, so in this case it actually does make sense that Guyver was dubbed 'out of control' - because it was out of mind control by the creators.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Aether

[LordSpleach]

Definition of THERIOMORPH

: an artifact (as a vase) shaped in animal form

Yeah, I don't know why ADV did that, except for it sounding 'cool'.

And the 'billions of years' could be a mistranslation or exaggeration. The current estimated age is 4.54 billion years give or take a few million years. That was made during the 1950s.

[daveblackeye152]

I wish we saw Murakami's shield-cutter trick again but I guess that one has been forgetten/retconned.

[*Jess♥]

I translated the time period a couple of months ago.

I can't remember what I was working on at the time, but I presented an accurate and reliable number.

also, the meaning of guyver was made very clear.

kikakugaihin means non standard product. out of control has nothing to do with it.

[*Jess♥]

ok I can read some of this. murakami's call - juushinhen.

this translates to beast god change.

can't read the rest I'm afraid.

[LordSpleach]

Beast God Change makes sense.

[Aether]

Beast god change? does that mean the literal meaning of a Zoalord is a 'beast God' i.e god of the (zoanoid) beast???

sounds better than therimorph anyway!!!!

the meaning of guyver was made very clear.

kikakugaihin means non standard product. out of control has nothing to do with it.

i know we kind of established the non standard product, but the contents of this chapter and the explanation does warrant 'out of control' being acceptable as a non literal explanation for that name... :)/>

I translated the time period a couple of months ago.

I can't remember what I was working on at the time, but I presented an accurate and reliable number.

i think that was in the one chapter i typeset and it was 'billions' of years - i get the whole Advents toying with all of evolution thing but billons of years worth like i said is strecthing it a bit - like it throws up many questions about the creators...

what is there life span?

is there perception of time different to ours?? or were they themselves thinking ''flipping heck this is takeing a bit long to make these super biological wepons!''

were they time travellers?? whatever war they were fighting must have been going on for ages for them to have time to spend billions of years on making weapons...

were they there for generation after generation i.e did they pro create on earth? or were the same Advents that arrived on earth the same ones that left??

etc.etc.

Im not trying to pick holes here, i'm just pointing out that billions of years is a long time!!! like lord spleach pointed out the Earth is only around 5 billion years old and really that is quite old when you consider its around a third of the calculated age of the universe itself (13 - 15 billion years)

Edited December 3, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

yep, zoalord is sort of 'beast god commander'. that is what the kanji says. but it is always accompanied with the pronunciation guide 'zoalord'. beast god change is accompanied with the pronunciation guide 'juushinhen' which is a japanese term so I think translating it is correct.

oh here is something interesting. just checking on possible sources for the term zoanoid and zoalord and this is a very interesting thing - http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=zoanthropy

I never thought of 'zoa' being based on something genuine, i always thought it was invented

I disagree on the out of control being a possible interpretation of kikakugaihin. I've played around with those kanji a lot. it doesn't stretch that way. è¦æ ¼å¤–å“　the kanji refers to standard or norm. it could be stretched to mean out of the ordinary, but control isn't a factor. it isn't present in any way. it could be implied, but it's not referred to. I wish i could see the japanese text for that specific panel, I would give you a literal translation of it, but i think we have seen that chuangyi can take a lot of liberties and warp the meaning of things at times.

although if you mean that we can take it as an implication then yeah of course. I totally agree with you because human beings were 'guided' to be controllable by the creators so a human that is a non-standard product or 'not to specification' would imply that one of the main features is missing.

I agree that billions of years seems like a very long time, but I am 99% certain of that. I actually did make a mistake on it at first. I missed it by a factor of ten, so when i corrected it , I made sure i got it absolutely correct. if only i could find the post I made then I could check the kanji and confirm whether it is the british billion or the american billion. it's is tragic that we have different version of a billion.

oh yeah about shizu, they were agito's 'vassal' or something weren't they?

I think yohei was referring to her ability to do that kind of stuff, preparing food, etc.

I don't think they had planned for her to become a combatant.

[Aether]

good find on the Zoanthropy!!

i realise that the correct translation is not out of control as went over it in one of the other 'observations' threads so i suppose like you said it is implied...i was just pointing out that it is valid as a label within the series, because the Guyver is exactly described as that with its relation to the Advents within these particular chapters.

oh well i was hoping Shizu was a secret badass chick and she had been saving it up for when Agito went crazy and processed her, anyway...

[daveblackeye152]

One minor thing has bothered me about book 4. It's just that it seems like no one else can go Zoalord + Guyver= super god. So because of that I've assumed Murakami's warning that the professor figured that out as saying 'yes this is totally possible, reader.' I mean problem is: why can't anyone figure that out and second: was he really so sure that it would work with scientific evidence?

A part of me suspects that after a huge battle Guyot will finally bond with a Guyver only for it to kill him in the process as some kind of final fail safe. Possibly anti-climatic without that battle but I do wonder if we were all mislead or not.