Energy Amps On GG (and XD)

[Aether]

first off please forgive any bliding mistakes as i wasnt even going to write this! Ryuki's post promted me to do it!!! and my research has been minimal!

Today i was messing around with my (dusty) Guyver Gigantic max factoy figure and i looked inside the clear plastic green power amps and noticed that inside each one is a visible sphere, obviously this is different to the unit G but it made me wonder if each amp has its own gravity conrtoller inside??

is this a find? or me just being forgetful or slow??

looking at the vdf although they are called energy amps, it seems that really they are extra gravity controllers that are amplified by the surrounding orb, and seeing as that is the main conduit of energy from the boost dimension that would mean that GG is siphoning at the very least 14x more BDE than the unit G. and thats excluding the 2 used for the Gigasmasher.

if this is the case its easy to see how the XD could create black hole weapons with such massive amounts of gravitational energy at its disposal.

[*Jess♥]

I think this could be a case of oversight. maybe i'm wrong or maybe i'm right.

but one thing I have been noticing with the manga and the way crystals are rendered, most of the crystals hint at an inner structure.

I most happily noticed it recently with aptom's eyes and that prompted me to make my ultra detailed wallpaper of him. it was his eyes.

but then, looking at other crystal structures reveals a hint of inner structures of the same type. it appears that all these crystals or most of them, have an inner core and a surrounding clear 'gem'.

here is the first example i could find that shows it clearly. - http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/28_-_Gigantomakhia/177/8

I don't think this is a case of gravity controller, but in guyver there is a certain ambiguity in the methods it uses to siphon energy from the boost dimension. I don't believe it is set in stone that a gravity controller is required to draw energy through. or rather.... are we certain that it does siphon off energy, or is that an assumption on our part? I can't quite remember.

also, I want to mention that there is 'power amp' and 'energy amp'. I haven't checked the terms myself so I don't know if it is a clear difference in terms or if it is merely a idiosyncracy of the person who translated either terms. I'm not sure if the same person translated either term so it's a bit of a muddy pool of water.

any case, I have been under the impression that the power amps in the normal guyver are not the same as the energy amps in guyver gigantic. this is further emphasised by the reference to the GG energy amps in the VDF and the comparison between them and the Ark.

I don't know about the 14X energy you mentioned, but I will point out that in the normal guyver, there appears to be a power amp in the same location as each energy amp in GG. so I am unsure if 14x can be used.

I would surmise that the GG has much more improved version of a similar concept. but the degree to which it is improved could not be gauged without any direct comparison of the two types of orb by takaya-sensei.

edit:

just checked the VDF and see that it says the gravity controller 'administers' the 'energy extraction' from the void space.

does that mean it directly siphons the energy, or just controls the process? (it is called 'controller')

not sure, but I would say yes.

so i see your reasons for suggesting there may be one in the energy amps.

maybe you are on to something?

although.... no I would say that is not the case. the reason I say that is by looking at the Ark. it seems to require charging from the sun? if these energy amps could siphon energy from the void space, then it would not need to charge in that way. do you agree?

[Aether]

hmmm....

it could just be artistic license with the crystals. if you think about it ,if a crystal is set in somewhere its getting no light from behind it therefore would appear darker in the centre. you can see it shown like that on the cover illustration of Archanfel on book 15 .

im not sure that i would call Aptoms eyes Crystals...what benefit would he gain from .... ah - unless he shoots energy through them !

maybe you are correct and the crystals are denser in the centre. so the centre is a generator and the surrounding an amplifier? (like the GC and energy amps)

i had never really thought of the power amps being made of 'crystal' but i guess it makes sense!! ( who knows what i thought they were made of!!!! )

========

yeah in the VDF it does make it sound like the GC is the main power point from the BD. which is obviously why i mentioned 14X power because of the extra 14 GC orbs.

im not really sure on the Ark or it being charged by the sun (i would think antimatter is a better source of fuel than light / heat energy when youre floating through the pitch blackness of space - but then again why dont they just use wormholes to get where they are going?? anyway...),

i just dont think the Ark and Guyver can be compared as they are two diferent systems and we know that Cronos can not replicate quite the same technology as the unit G.

im kind of thinking i was onto something

Edited September 21, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

we compare the guyver gigantic to the ark because they are made from exactly the same thing and it is also mentioned in the datafile that we can consider them like brothers. it states quite explicitly that they each have the same 12 energy amps.

the reason i referred to aptoms eyes as crystals is because they appear to be rendered as solid shiny objects.

they may be gelatinous but i wonder if a crystal can be soft and gelatinous?

but anyhow, I guess in this context I don't refer to then using the standard definition of crystal... orb won't work since they aren't all round... perhaps gem is better? I don't know.

my purpose was to point out that all the objects we may see as solid and shiny do seem to have that internal structure.

I found what you said interesting about the possibility of the dark central bit being the result of light bending or something. I think i see what you're saying, but i just tested out that hypothesis with the crystal ball I have.

the crystal ball magnifies the internal space so it would not appear that way, quite the opposite.

just confirmed page 46 of book 17. the ark needs sunlight to charge.

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/17_-_The_King_Stands_Alone/101/9

[Aether]

yes well, this is why im re-reading the whole thing !!

yeah, i think the whole eye thing confused me.

really all i meant was if there is something dark behind where the crystal is set it would appear dark inside, but thinking of it for it to appear that way all the time it would require the exact same light source all the time, which is just silly for Takaya to illustrate it like that.

your guess on the internal structure is probably right.

===

back to the Gravity Controllers

so is it saying GG only has 12 extra Gravity Controllers?? ah, forgive me then, that means the 2 wrist ones dont count .

on the Ark could it be that the 12 GC's are just used for gravity control? i.e purely to make the ship fly - like the secondary purpose of the GC on the Guyvers?

if so this could still mean my theory is correct, as it would suggest the Ark can only use the GC's for flight and not power like the GG, thus why they have resorted to solar power.

like i said even if they are made of the same materials the Ark and are still two different systems utilising the components differently.

(maybe ! )

Edited September 21, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

woah!

I think something got lost in the fray there. no, I don't think it has suggested anywhere there are 12 extra gravity controllers. it is quite clear that the gigantic has 2 extra gravity controllers. on the chest.

the guyver gigantic has 12 energy amps and these are compared directly with the 12 energy amps on the Ark.

there is a confusing bit here though. the energy amps do have an influence on gravitational forces. that is how the Ark operates... but they aren't gravity controllers. it is a bit confusing actually. the gravity controller seems to be siphoning energy from void space, and perhaps converting that to gravity energy somehow. or allowing it to feed into the 'gravity manipulating' energy amps.

at this stage, I want to include the gravity gyros in the regular guyvers hips which are the things that actually perform guyvers flying. also the wrists compress the gravity energy for the pressure cannon. the momentum enhancers increase mass for punching and kicking etc.

[Aether]

ok, yeah. im just getting carried away, and for now assuming energy amps equals gravity controllers!

i still think that the structure of an energy amp is a gravity control device inside and the surrounding amplifier is enhancing the energy from void space/ boost dimension even more, but there you go, if nothing else simply because i think it sounds cool (can you tell i cant 100% focus on this anymore ).

i think my confusion is the slightly ambiguous description in the VDF.

reading it again it says:

''the gravitational energy that the gravity control orb generated is amplified''

does it simply mean the one at the waist? or the orbs Max Factory randomly decided to put inside the figures power amps??

edit: ( had to come back and put a picture in!!!)

(just thought i wonder if anyone with a Zoalord figure (i dont have one) could look inside their crystals on the off chance they put a central detail in there)?

much like your theory on the inside of the crystals theres got to be a reason for these spheres being in the Gigantics amps.

who knows.

its so funny how much you miss (or just forget) in the VDF if you dont read every single thing. so the gravity gyro's are the control for flying and the GC is the cause.

maybe the equivalent in the Ark is the power amps act as the GC and the Zoacrystals act as the gravity giro organs?

Edited September 23, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

I'm not sure, I'm getting confused now.

all I know is that if it were gravity controllers inside I am sure it would be more clear.

especially when we see them smashed open, they would be drawn shiny.

http://www.japan-legend.com/guyver_advocacy/16_-_Torrid_Lightning-Hyper/094/25

they appear very dull and with a matte texture. it just doesn't scream gravity controller to me and also, I am sure the system would be anomalous in terms of power output if that were the case.

at this stage i don't even know why we're arguing about gravity controllers being in the energy amps.

if you're saying the ambiguous description is the reason. ok, but I don't see it as ambiguous. I see it as saying, the gravity controller siphons energy, and the other organs and systems of the guyver use that energy.

or if the reason is simply to arrive at an explanation of why there is orbs inside the energy amps, well I think there can be any number of possibilities. in normal guyver, before the gravity controllers were placed on the chest, there was another form of structure in the centre of the megasmasher. I think the whole premise is very straightforward in that an orb of any kind, on it['s own is not gonna acheive much. in designing the guyver and all these orbs, takaya sensei has been clever and included these little details to hint at some for of mechanism for how these things work. an orb looks nice in terms of design, but it also is functional and not just a useless glass bead.

edit: or if you're sticking to your guns because i unintentionally irked you or shot down one of your ideas, I apologise. it's not my intention to get under your skin my not listening or respecting your idea.

[Aether]

no dude, never any animosity here. everyones got there own opinions.

im not irked.

when i began the thread not much research was done - its was just on a whim.

however some of the stuff you pointed out seemed to enforce what i was saying. and youve done some great research concerning it all.

gravity contollers or not, it doesnt really bother me, i just had'nt noticed them on the figure in a while and certainly couldn't remember seeing them in the manga. it got me thinking, thats all.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Aether

[*Jess♥]

yeah, I have to admit I was a bit surprised that they are so visible on the figures

they are generally hidden in the manga aren't they?

it's like the orb seems to be very opaque. so perhaps the figure has it just a little bit too transparent?

it is nice to think about what they might be.

and this talk has changed my own personal view on the gravity controller.

I hadn't quote acknowledged and committed to memory the fact that the GC doesn't actually generate or change gravitational forces directly, it controls the gravity manipulations of the other organs of the guyver.

it sort of brings home the things we have seen such as gigantic dark's leg flying of its own accord. I hadn't questioned that, but had found it a little odd. but now of course it makes perfect sense. it's almost as though the gravity controller is a sub-processor of some sort. or... how about if the gravity controller isn't localised in it's siphoning of void space energy? perhaps the gravity controller can create an energy siphon within a certain radius? so it actually controls the position of where the void space energy manifests and maybe that manifests as gravity wells or something. or... maybe i'm just getting mixed up with too much data. ah it's probably because i'm tired.

let's see if you can pick up hte threads of what i'm going on about.

something like gravity pinholes in the vicinity of the energy amps. that pinhole can get the energy transmuted into electromagnetic energy or effective mass etc. oh, this is where subatmoic physics can come in handy. I'll think about this tomorrow.

[Aether]

a courteous post to say, i cant get my head around this at the moment.but i'll try not to forget about it.

but take this into consideration ive posted it twice elsewhere i think.

''according to the VDF, p9 i think,when the Armour appears in this dimension it crosses through a wormhole creating the explosive sphere, so it sounds like the gravity controller acts like some kind of mini wormhole that constantly syphons energy from the BD into the guyver.

metaphorically speaking maybe its like the Guyver's 'heart' pumping boost dimension energy 'blood' throughout the Guyver.''

i know im leaping again from an assumption tothe next but think about it weve, been told the GC is the siphon so maybe thats how it does it??

[*Jess♥]

I don't think it's that unreasonable.

I think it's very sensible.

I've thought the same thing for a while.

the gravity controller seems to be well capable of making that definite connection or gate with the void space.

I don't know about it being a 'heart' maybe more like a large intestine condensed into a tiny space.

although having said that, how would the energy be transported? I guess we're just going to struggle coming up with ideas at this point.

[*YoungGuyver]

Just as a superconductor is great a generating funky magnetic fields, the gravity controller is great at punching a hole in the dimensional barrier which unleashes a shadow of gravity field the various organs on the armor can feed off of.

A singularity is supposed to be vary similar to a wormhole (the very inspiration for it), and is normally generated by extreme density. Extreme speed can generate extreme mass for the time dilation effect. Are we seeing a combination of these principals on the micro/nanoscopic level? Is a micro blackhole being generated within the gravity controller?

[*Jess♥]

thinking abut it now, I'd like to suggest there is something else at play.

we've seen this breach in void space by various characters. guyver gigantic does it with the cocoon. archanfel does it and apollon does it.

but zoalords that have been shown to be keenly attuned to gravitational forces and can clearly generate massive gravity wells, haven't been shown to be able to use this ability.

so I think something else is at play when considering a conduit to void space.

[Aether]

the way i see Archanfel and Apollons transportation is more like teleportation rather than crossing through a wormhole.

also the way i think about the siphon from void space being a womhole is that its a perfect example of a black hole / white hole situation... the Control Metal is being the black hole in the boost dimension collecting and condensing energy and effectively being a white hole ejecting out the energy into the guyver system in our dimension.

[*Jess♥]

teleportation would involve one object disappearing from one place and appearing in another.

what we are looking at appears to be a gate. one the other side appears to be void space. so it may not be a wormhole, but it is a portal of some kind.

[*YoungGuyver]

Imakarum and Guyot had to launch their 'Gravity Points' in order to generate a mini-black hole. It was as if the Gravity Points were like batteries, or bullet clips. I suspect that a Chronos facilty had to manufacture them for implantation into the Zoalord. I guess Chronos hasn't quite mastered the Uranos Gravity Controller technology yet