If Aptom bonded to a guyver unit....

[guyverfanatic]

I'm curious, if Aptom bonded to a guyver unit, would he still be able to absorb zoanoids into him self?

[WarriorZoalord]

i'm guessing no, since i believe the unit would erase the new DNA before he could merge with it, or the unit would keep him from abosrbing others......

[*Jess♥]

or maybe because the guyver enhances the abilities of the host whatever those abilities are.........

it may enable him to absorb dna just by looking at it!

or something like that........

In many ways aptom is like a bio booster creature, being able to assimilate and copy dna. perhaps the control medal would absorb him as it does the bio booster material?

[Guest]

or maybe because the guyver enhances the abilities of the host whatever those abilities are.........

it may enable him to absorb dna just by looking at it!

or something like that........

In many ways aptom is like a bio booster creature, being able to assimilate and copy dna. perhaps the control medal would absorb him as it does the bio booster material?

I find one probem with these suggestions. I will compare Aptom for a moment to a Saiyajin (Forgive the DBZ refference) in the respect that he is constantly improving his physical state. They train to get stronger, Aptom absorbs things. Now introduce a Guyver into the mix. The Guyver's purpose is to enhance the phsyical attributes of the host. This would mean that Aptom would be given an imediate boost in potential, which he would begin to attain. This forces the Guyver to adapt itself again, pushing the threshold. This is a repeating cycle, that would ultimately cause the Control Medal to overload and destroy itself, which would then lead imediately to the host being eaten alive. This could be a slow process or very fast. It's part of a series of discussions I once had with Mistress Seven about what creatures could and could not use Guyver Units.

[Guest]

it may enable him to absorb dna just by looking at it!

Not unless he's able to super zoom in on it like millions of times normal and sort the code out in his brain which then be processed into his body, so somehow I have to say no

I find one probem with these suggestions. I will compare Aptom for a moment to a Saiyajin (Forgive the DBZ refference) in the respect that he is constantly improving his physical state. They train to get stronger, Aptom absorbs things. Now introduce a Guyver into the mix. The Guyver's purpose is to enhance the phsyical attributes of the host. This would mean that Aptom would be given an imediate boost in potential, which he would begin to attain. This forces the Guyver to adapt itself again, pushing the threshold. This is a repeating cycle, that would ultimately cause the Control Medal to overload and destroy itself, which would then lead imediately to the host being eaten alive. This could be a slow process or very fast. It's part of a series of discussions I once had with Mistress Seven about what creatures could and could not use Guyver Units.

I don't think so, the unit only multiples bio-energy production by what the host can handle so if he keeps getting more physically adept then he will become more powerful with his guyver active thugh since he becomes stronger through absorbing things then he would eventually reach a poitn wheere he is limited in how powerful he can become without absorbing something else. What is far more likely to happen is exactly what WarriorZoalord said, he will still proably be able to absorb zoanoids and so on without any problems and use those abilities but when the unit is activated it would just erase that DNA putting him back to he way he was when he merged with it, however I think he could still probaly use the absorbing power like normal to attain additional bio-energy for his reserves without any side effects.

[Guest]

I dont think he could keep on getting stronger based on the fact the the unit will keep reseting his DNA back 2 its original pre-guyver form, but aptom is a smart character, all he would have to do is simply divide himself before he bio boosts or leave a part of himself beheing, and after the battle re-merge with the newer aptom DNA, that way he could always have better abilities, or he would just permenatly seperate into 2 different aptoms, kuz i think they would become 2 different beings kuz the guyver aptom would have a telepathic link with the regular aptom because of the unit no?

[nidhogg]

I believe the guyver would end up tearing aptom apart.

But that just my belief.

[Guest]

Um, although it would be very cool to see Guyver Aptom, I don't believe that it is possible.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't aptom kill other zoanoids for their bio-energy with their abilities as a side benefit. I don't see a guyver wearing Atpom (even if it is possible for him to survive wearing it in the first place) being capable of 'eating' like he does, the CM just doesn't allow that degree of flexibilitiy in form. Therefore, would the guyver support Aptom's parasitic nature for his bio-energy suppplies? I doubt that if it did the energy would come from anywhere other than the guyver itself.

Perhaps this is just mindless rambling... but I hope it helps the discussion along

[Guest]

I don't think so, the unit only multiples bio-energy production by what the host can handle so if he keeps getting more physically adept then he will become more powerful with his guyver active thugh since he becomes stronger through absorbing things then he would eventually reach a poitn wheere he is limited in how powerful he can become without absorbing something else. What is far more likely to happen is exactly what WarriorZoalord said, he will still proably be able to absorb zoanoids and so on without any problems and use those abilities but when the unit is activated it would just erase that DNA putting him back to he way he was when he merged with it, however I think he could still probaly use the absorbing power like normal to attain additional bio-energy for his reserves without any side effects.

Perhaps so, but I think Aptom has one advantage, in the respect that his DNA has a sort of wildcard in it. How would the Guyver handle this wildcard portion of his DNA? The Guyver would read the wildcard, and attribute any additions to his DNA as to this wildcard reading. Which brings me back to his limitless potential. He can keep gathering and gathering which would force the guyver to continue to adapt. The only thing that might stop Aptom from exploding (where as a Saiyajin would) is that he needs this energy to survive. If he keeps gathering energy and evolving, each evolution would require more energy to keep him alive... like a vampire. So the more he evolves, the more he needs energy, which would be provided by the guyver's adaptations. So perhaps we need to think in reverse. There will come a point where he CAN'T get enough energy to survive. What would happen? Thoughts?

[Guest]

Both zoanoids and boost armor units were created by the Uranos/Advents/Creators (multiple names for the alien race of long ago). They created humans to be fully integrated zoa forms, and the unit-g as a zoa form 'plug and play'. It's the same techknowlogy with a slight twist.

Zoanoids are by design telepathically subservient to zoalords. Boost armor are subservient to their host' summons (when they call the armor it's the telepathic growths used). I could go on and describe the telepathy relationships in detail, but lets just say that telepathy can be counted as important for both.

When Aptom absorbed Elegen, he pointed out to Barcas that his modifications ruined his telepathy. Any time he fully integrates a new zoanoid the telepathy wanes away to nothing. His telepathy abilities were lost. Now note, for some reason Chaos Aptom is under some sort of control, so I don't know what happened to change this. Maybe it was physical contact with that one zoalord that caused some sort of hypnosis/brain wash, I'd have to wait for the translations of text. I'm only going from what was translated by viz.

Anyway, after rambling on to make a clear point, here is the final point. Would a unit-g bother to bond with Aptom? Would it consider a creature incapable of telepathy a good idea, when telepathy is a part of the creators cultural interaction?

[Guest]

Anyway, after rambling on to make a clear point, here is the final point. Would a unit-g bother to bond with Aptom? Would it consider a creature incapable of telepathy a good idea, when telepathy is a part of the creators cultural interaction?

Consider that the hosts we've seen so far are NOT telepathic to begin with. Neither Sho nor Agito had any sort of telepathic link to work with until the growths on their backs gave them a specific link to the guyver and to other guyvers. Assume that Aptom were to bond with a unit, he would grow these growths as well, thus establishing a permanent link with the host, one that no form of bodily alterations should allow him to be rid of. If you consider this I see no reason why Aptom couldn't bond with a Guyver.

[Kamui de' Tempest]

It is true that neither Sho nor Agito had telepathic abilities prior to becoming Guyvers. But, being human, they are capable of telepathic powers as are the rest of the human biengs in the world. I believe that the growths do nothing more than act as a telepathic focus for activating the armor. Remove them and telepathic abilities are gone but that doesn't mean that they relied soley on the growths to operate. Thinking like that would allow any creature to be able to become Guyvers. From the dog to a whale. I use this example to say that these creatures have no telepathic abilities because they are not capable of higher thought and consciousness, which I also believe allows for the telepathic abilities to evolve. This being said, would the growths grow on an animal.

I say all this to say that Aptom admitted himself that he no longer has telepathic abilities, that they were wiped out of him on a genetic level, and everytime he absorbs a new zoanoid he wipes out thier telepathic link on a genetic level being that he absorbs them on a genetic level. So would a Unit-G bond with an animal incapable of telepathic abilities or a creature that has any possibilities of telepathic abilities wiped from him on a genetic level? But, another question would be what if he absorbs a Zoalord? Well, know that's awhole different story, now isn't it?

[Guest]

It is true that neither Sho nor Agito had telepathic abilities prior to becoming Guyvers. But, being human, they are capable of telepathic powers as are the rest of the human biengs in the world. I believe that the growths do nothing more than act as a telepathic focus for activating the armor. Remove them and telepathic abilities are gone but that doesn't mean that they relied soley on the growths to operate. Thinking like that would allow any creature to be able to become Guyvers. From the dog to a whale. I use this example to say that these creatures have no telepathic abilities because they are not capable of higher thought and consciousness, which I also believe allows for the telepathic abilities to evolve. This being said, would the growths grow on an animal.

I see no reason why an animal couldn't bio-boost. As long as the creature is capable of emotion, it's emotions would control when it boosts, as opposed to a human or dolphin mind who could make a conscious choice on when they boost. Instinct would rule an animal merged with a unit, making them only slightly less dangerous as a human.

I say all this to say that Aptom admitted himself that he no longer has telepathic abilities, that they were wiped out of him on a genetic level, and everytime he absorbs a new zoanoid he wipes out thier telepathic link on a genetic level being that he absorbs them on a genetic level. So would a Unit-G bond with an animal incapable of telepathic abilities or a creature that has any possibilities of telepathic abilities wiped from him on a genetic level? But, another question would be what if he absorbs a Zoalord? Well, know that's awhole different story, now isn't it?

The guyver does what it must to survive with the host. If that means re-inserting the means of telepathic communication into the genetic structure of Aptom, I think it could. You do pose a good point with absorbing a Zoalord, or even just their zoa-crystal. This would re-write him in a way to give him telepathics back as well as control over other zoanoids so he can make them stand still and be absorbed...

[Guest]

Are you sure that absorbing aby form of zoanoid will rewrite his basic DNA? Any zoanoid DNA he absorbs seems to be held in a subservient state. Otherwise his nature would probebly have changed long ago after absorbing only a few zoanoids... (he'd no longer have the same properties that he still does, he'd no longer be the Aptom that we all know). It's been a year at least since Chronos took over Earth, enough time for Aptom to show a few changes in his eating absorbing habits.

I think Aptom has 'Governing DNA', which tells him how to run his body, metabolism, and basic nature. And I think Aptom has 'Library DNA', which is a storage of absorbed DNA patterns that Aptom can use for shape shifting.

Thus, I don't think Aptom can be granted telepathy again unless he is reprocessed by a proffesional DNA manipulator... such as a zoanoid processing tube.

True, Unit-G slightly alter the DNA of the host, but still based on host properties. If humans were created with the -basis- of telepathy in mind, it is probebly that connection the telepathy growths are boosting/latching on to.

On the other hand, Aptom had telepathy while latched on to Elegen until absorbtion was complete. so I guess that's a little up in the air until we learn more.

Oh, and telepathy is important. The growths allow the user to summon the Boost Armor from the boost dimension. If Aptom's DNA forces him to eat away at the growths, then he'd never be able to summon the armor. If he could never form the growths in the first place, it's a question of if he could even retract the armor in the first place. Without retracting the armor, he wouldn't be able to feed (at least in the case of a human).

And yes, the Control Metal allows the armor to adapt to the host... but it is limited to the scientific knowledge that the creators can instill into the control metal.

If the Boost Armor could adapt to anything without limit, then there wouldn't be a need for the Gigantic armor. The existance of the Gigantic Armor proves there are limits to what can be done.

[*zeo]

If the Boost Armor could adapt to anything without limit, then there wouldn't be a need for the Gigantic armor. The existance of the Gigantic Armor proves there are limits to what can be done.

I disagree with you upon that interpretation YoungGuyver. The Gigantic in my view is a seperate entity from the host Guyver unit. If anything it shows the Guyver can adapt and go beyond its limitations, not the reverse. After all it was the Guyver factor that caused the Relic Cocoon to create the Gigantic, drastically changing the function of the Relic. Something that can definitely be argued was not in the Creator data base and thus shows flexibility of both design and function of Creator technology.

Let's not forget we are talking about living technology. By its very nature limitations are at the very least flexible and by no means absolute.

Consider that the Guyver's only real limitation is what it has to work with and that limitation is linked to the host. A being like Aptom would give the unit far more to work with.

Your arguement also doesn't reflect that the Gigantic example does not factor in any enhancements the host could bring to the mix. Indeed, IMHO, the armor's adaptability can very well be able to assimulate a being like Aptom. The main limitations I see is it would block his ability to assimulate new DNA but it shouldn't block his ability to absorb organic matter for energy as that is natural to the host biology. Only the DNA assimulation would conflict with the static nature of the Guyver bond once finalized.

However, I do agree with you on the matter of Telepathy. If even the potential for telepathy is removed from Aptom then it is unlikely he could ever bond to a Guyver Unit. Though the total removal of even the potential of telepathy is highly unlikely and for Aptom may only be due to his unstable DNA, something a bonding to a Unit could potentially rectify.

But in the end only Takaya can say for sure.

On another note, I noticed there is very little thought being given to what would happen if Aptom did indeed bond to a unit outside of the obvious power enhancments... Namely what would happen if Aptom also absorbed the Unit as it was bonding to him?

Remember Aptom has the potential to Absorb a Guyver, the only thing stopping him is the Guyver Control Medal but would it interfere if the unit is bonding to him?

In short what would be the result of a complete and total merger?

[Kamui de' Tempest]

YoungGuyver, you have elaborated on alot of the points that I tried to make, and good idea with the DNA Govenor and Library concept. I hadn't thought of it like that but it makes sense. So good form, Young Guyver, good form.

Zeo, you also raise an interesting query. I would imagine the end result would be something similar to Kaisers concept of a Bio-Merged Organism. Basically a Guyver Organism released from the constraints of the CM. Snce a full mergance might yield a no longer seperate entity. No longer Aptom, No longer Guyver, a real fulfledged Bio-Organism. But that's all MHO.

[Guest]

What I was trying to say with the Gigantic Zeo, was that if a Boost Armor is infinite in its adaptability and everything, then it would automatically boost the host into a god. The gigantic is an add-on, offering new abilities (well, enhancments taken from different perspectives) that the regular armor doesn't. This suggests a limitation to a regular Unit-G's adaptation/enhancment abilities. It is a tool of limited capacity, just like things in the real world.

Interesting idea though, about the unit-g being submissive if it were trying to merge with Aptom

[Guest]

In the terms of the control medal, i think it would be irrelevent, as his genetic structure is a type of control mechanism already. Since his body has shown the ability to adapt and handle greater and greater bio levels, dureing the bonding process aptom could assimilate certain needed genetic traits from the unit, and if he loses the abitlity to bio boost due to telepathy issues, that would just mean his genetic memory wouldnt reset allowing him to continue absorbing new genetic info while keeping the guyver dna, after all i belive they said the guyver unit was an altered parasitic organism, well i think that was said in the anime.

so even if he loses the ability to bio boost he still retains the guyver dna. granted it is gonna take a while for his body to readjust to the new bio levels, but once that happens he would be strong enough to take on a zoalord, so that would bring up an even bigger question of aptom with guyver/zoalard dna.....plus another issue is the gigantic unit, to me it is another bio boost for a guyver, which would allow aptom to maybe double his bio reserves. and the control medal factor as i said before lies in his gentic structure since it already regulates his bio levels, considering by form 4 or 5 hes already as strong as a guyver i think....so aptom in short is like a liveing control medal created by humans/chronos.....

[*Jess♥]

It seems to me that the guyver unit, when bonding with the host, takes a look at the hosts inherent abilities and then amplifies them by use of the power amplifiers.

it also has some of its own weapons data stored in the control medal. in bonding with aptom the guyver would analyse him and then place the power amps in the appropriate places and put to the appropriate use. the medal is a slave to the hosts will so it would not harm aptom and if it is in aptoms dna to absorb extra dna then the medal would configure itself to allow that.

i feel that once aptom had bonded with the unit he would have no use for the medal because thorugh coml;etely absorbing the bio booster creature and obtaining the weapons data the medal would simply have no purpose. it would not need to keep any cdreature under control. aptom could simply discard it.

this may be foolish however because if he discards it it would simply rebuild him . with aptom not being able to absorb anythjing that the medal has control over(as seen in cloud gate when aptom becomes chaos aptom), the control medal would probably become the real aptom.

in the long run aptom wouldnt merge with the guyver he would become something else entirely. a self sufficient control medal reegulated bio booster organism.

[*zeo]

What I was trying to say with the Gigantic Zeo, was that if a Boost Armor is infinite in its adaptability and everything, then it would automatically boost the host into a god.

I'm aware of what you meant but like I said upon that point of your statement I disagree with your conclusion. Simply having vast adaptability potential does not mean it will auto boost the host into a god. Even the most adaptable of life forms still has to be limited to its resources.

Besides the potential we are argueing about is what the unit can handle upon bonding to a life form like Aptom. Considering whether or not something like that is even possible. The Gigantic was clearly after the fact and resulted with an already hosted unit.

Adaptability after the bonding process is a completely seperate issue but the Gigantic does show that even after a bonding the unit is still capable of adaptation given the right circumstances. So I believe you are seriously selling the G-Unit short on its potential.

Think of it this way, a G-Unit in its dormant state is like a Stem Cell ready to take form it has near infinite potential but an already bonded unit has already taken a form and function so has less potential.

But other than that you made good points. Only thing I would add is the telepathic organism will auto activate the unit if tampered with so unlikely Aptom could get rid of them, at worst he'd be armored all the time. But considering he can control his aborbing power, otherwise he'd absorb everything he touches (including his allies), that he can simply relax his form into his base human form and that would allow the armor to deactivate. Course every time he did use his absorbsion power he could trigger the unit.

Anyway, drag-5, the problem with Aptom assimulating DNA after being bonded to a Guyver Unit is the fact the unit preserves the host in the condition the host was in at time of bonding. I do believe the unit can bond to just about any sentient life form but you have to consider factors such as how the CM is able to regenerate its host from just a few cells. So Aptom may retain his ability to absorb organic matter but assimulation of DNA would be at best temporary, at least with a standard G-Unit.

As to what would happen if Aptom completely merged with a Unit... Here's a hint, the Control Medal will absolutely be a factor and by no means will it be irrevelant.

[Guest]

Even the most adaptable of life forms still has to be limited to its resources.

Yep, I completely agree.

The unit-G is able to regenerate the entire body, so it must be able to generate materials in order to build the body. I assume the cells of the biomaterial have a form of fusion. This is where things get confusing though... in theory it should be able to generate anything.

In theory, the unit-G should have been able to give Sho and Agito zoacrystal power amplifiers, rocket thrusters on their backs, and everything else. Why not? Why did it stop at that power level if it is capable of more?

My only guess could be that the biomaterial of the armor is only capable of generating elements/molecules already in it's cellular structure. Like Aptom (but with fusion) it can make copies of molecules. Mirror fusion.

which meens that the unit-G wouldn't be able to generate absolutely anything at will in order to adapt to anything. (The gigantic has a different material composition, and therefor allows different possibilities).

Of coarse this mirror fusion thing is speculation, but it's the best I've got to explain it at the moment.

I find your idea of Aptom shifting boost states via shifting into human form very interesting. A brilliant idea. Without the telepathy summon ability though, do you think the armor will just lay hidden as amorpheous biomass alongside his own cells? That his guyver boost would be like a zoanoid morphing transformation? Do you think his control metal and sensor orbs would remain exposed, or would he be able to pull them under his skin?

I've been thinking about his scar too. The birth mark looking thingy across the side of his face, and why it is always there in his human form. (automatically you mention stem cells). It's possible that the distribution of blood vessels on one side of his body distorts (the heart of the human body is not laid out symetrically). There could be a genetic defect that offbranches the side of the body the vessels are laid out in.

If his origional human genetic code is the host for his 'Governing' DNA strands, then this blood defect would be reflected. It would disappear anytime he uses his 'Libary' DNA to organize a body. That could be why he keeps it around... because he might not have a choice.

Just a random thought