If enzyme fused with a guyver

[Guest]

Hey your good with physics I'am not, as simple as that.

Well I think Will has got the main point, for all our theory's and logical guesses it's simply 50/50 as to weather or not we're right or wrong so until Takaya has the guyver bond with something other than a human we're all kinda stuck.

[*zeo]

An acid works very differently from a enzyme. I can't find any dictionary definition that would allow you the wiggle room to even imply that they're the same thing.

Acid:....2 a : of, relating to, or being an acid; also : having the reactions or characteristics of an acid *acid soil* *an acid solution*...

[TheGuyversWill]

Well just because we don't exactly have canon evidence to have any say on what happens if a unit bonds on something that isn't human doesn't mean we can't make decent theories and educated guesses. After all that's what this part of the board is for is it not?

We don?t know if the Guyver is going to adapt well enough to actually combine with Enzyme. We cant speculate if this is going to work, merely because of the fact that so far in the manga the only thing we've seen an Enzyme 1 do to a Guyver, is melt its armor. Considering the armor is comprised of the organism, which means that with all the information the manga has given us, the guyver wont bond with the Enzyme.

If we knew more about the adaptive properties of the Guyver, than we could further speculate on this topic, but without conclusive evidence of these said adaptive abilities, we are unable to draw any conclusion.

As far as the extreme exposures to forces of gravity, and there effect on the human body goes.. Well, that has nothing to do with the concept of an Enzyme bonding with the Guyver. It appears you would rather just prove someone wrong, or insult their intelligence, rather than try to use their resources to help you further your own argument. Perhaps you should create another topic in which to discuss these properties.

[Guest]

That's supposed to disprove my point? If I were to develop a sadistic streak and doused a rabbit in Potassium Hydroxide as the rabbit dissolved would you conclude this was the work of an acid?

Acids are a very specific group of chemicals with certain unique characteristics. Acids are H+ ions, effectively protons, ionically bonded to another ion suspended in water. It needs to be dissolved in water to bring out the characteristic dissolving property. The water forces the ions apart because it is polar. It is the power of these protons and proton chemistry that causes the dissolving action of an acid. Bases and solvent also dissolve. There is no reason for an acid to be neutralized by exposure to air and I suspect there is no evidence of a sour taste.

Chemistry the Central Science pg 559-561

A large number of marvelously efficient biological catalysts known as enzymes… Most enzymes are large protein molecules with molecular weights ranging from about 10,000 to about 1 million amu. They are very selective in the reactions that they catalyze, and some are absolutely specific, operating for only one substance in only one reaction… Because hydrogen peroxide is strongly oxidizing, it can be physiologically harmful. For this reason the blood and livers of mammals contain an enzyme, catalase, which catalyzes the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen…

Although an enzyme is a large molecule, the reaction is catalyzed at a very specific location in the enzyme, called the active site. The substances the undergo reaction at this site are called substrates. A simple explanation for the specificity of enzymes is provided by the lock-and-key model…The active site is created by coiling and folding of the long protein molecule to forma a space, something like a pocket, into which the substrate molecule fits…

…

As the substrate molecules enter the active site, they are somehow activated, so that they are capable of particular bond by the enzyme. In addition, in the process of fitting into the active site, the substrate molecule may be distorted and thus made more reactive. Once the reaction occurs, the products then depart, allowing another substrate molecule to enter.

The activity of an enzyme is destroyed if some molecule in the solution is able to bind strongly to the active site and block entry of the substrate. Such substances are called enzyme inhibitors.

Chemistry the Central Science G-2

catalyst: A substance that changes the speed of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing a permanent chemical change in process.

Chemistry the Central Science G-1

Acid: A substance that is able to donate a H+ ion (a proton) and hence increases the concentration of H+ (aq) when it dissolves in water

Any questions?

TheGuyversWill on the acceleration thing Brolly brought it up and I rebutted it initially. As you say it isn't really relevant but I feel it's sort of my right to defend myself against people nitpicking what I said.

[*zeo]

Now this reminds me of the FLCL discussion and the debate over the correct spelling of the pronounciation.

FOG3, overall your scientific analysis is fine but as far as the term goes you are being too literal and you are limiting your analysis to just the commonly used acid types.

The word Acid is a term to describe a reaction that results in the break down of a target material. Anything that accomplishes that is classified as an acid. Besides which Bio-Chemical reactions can be a lot more complex than simple chemical reactions.

Even going with the technical definition there are 3 accepted theories of what is an acid. The Lewis Theory and The Br?nsted-Lowry Theory, for example, have a wider parameter for what can be call an acid. Only The Arrhenius Theory specifically limits an acid as a substance that must dissolve in water to produce the necessary reaction. Not to mention amphoterism, also functional groups, which is the property of certain substances of acting either as acids or as bases depending on the reaction in which they are involved, to which even H20 itself can be considered an acid.

Besides which you are not even bothering to analyze how Enzyme 1's blood worked. You stick to the word enzyme and think that's all there is to it, which is wrong. Enzymes are a type of protein which in turn are made of amino-acids. The key component that makes an Enzyme a catalyst is its molecular shape, allowing it to act upon a substance without necessarily exchanging ions. The enzymes used to create recombanant DNA, which happens all the time in our bodies btw, actually rearrange the DNA sequences by pulling segments apart(analysis indicate some can exert as much as 20 times the kinetic force as an equivalent size muscle tissue), moving the segment, and then re-attaching the segment at a different point in the chain.

Enzymes can even be used as powerful disinfectants such as against prions/vCJD's.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993999

Additionally, many acids are named after either their combined component element combination, like hydrocloric acid, or after a key component, such as in functional groups (I.E.>For example, methanol, etc. are all classified as alcohols since they contain a functional hydroxyl group) that makes it possible for a combination of substances to become an acid.

Now there are many different types of acids and they can be neutrallized differently. Some can be neutrallized by something as simple as vinger while others actually become acid in stuff like liquid ammonia instead of in water.

As for why air neutrallizes Enzyme's blood, for one thing let's remember we're dealing with blood so its partly to do with oxidation with the iron in the blood. An important factor considering even the later Enzymes had the same limitations, aside from the vomit acid, of how they could deliver the acid to the target. Then there's the fact air is composed of more than just Oxygen.

As to the taste, I seriously doubt anyone in the Manga would ever even entertain the idea of tasting Enzyme's blood. So yes there is no evidence of sour taste but then again there is no evidence that there isn't one either.

How this pertains to the topic, simple, we may not know exactly how the unit would react to a Enzyme host but we can be pretty sure it can't get around anything that would directly damage it. Seeing the unit bond to a none human host would not resolve this debate as unless it bonds to something with a similar problem then we have no way of knowing if the unit could survive long enough to adapt or if it is even capable of that. At least for the first Enzyme since the component the Enzyme reacts with could be something the unit can't do without and/or is too much part of its makeup to shield or isolate from such a host.

Btw, the gravity discussion was not completely irrevelant since it pertained to the possible adaptability of the host unit combination by attempting to show how the unit adapted the host. It was just not a great example, since the examples given never really pushed the limits of human endurance of G forces, and as noted Brolly's calculations were off. But it did help bring up the points YoungGuyver made about organ replacement and such. Revelent since this discussion basically boild down to the limits of a Unit-G's adaptability and capabilities.

But like Will said, until further revelant evidence is gathered we can only assume for now that a unit bonding to an Enzyme host is not a likely possibility.

[Guest]

I have remebered one very interesting thing, in anime series of guyver i heard, that enzymes (enzyme 1 to be exact) blood in contact with air vaporizes... this means enzyme cannot breathe, so he cannot exist

(i could be wrong, because i can't remember exactly)

[Guest]

a little off.

The enzyme that is carried in Enzyme 1's blood looses effectivness when in contact with air. The blood itself is fine. Enzyme should still be able to conduct cellular respiration.

[McAvoy]

Just to add something to the mix: The Guyver Powered Zerebubuse of the WG Fanfic did in fact adapt to it's own acid as said in it's datafile. Keep in mind this is just a mere standard Guyver unit. So perhaps someone in the higher ups already figured it out.

[jedi-guyver]

We're trying to stay away from fan-fiction, because in that you can make anything work, we're trying to keep everything in lines of Takaya work and what we know of the guyver from what he has told us.

[Guest]

We're trying to stay away from fan-fiction, because in that you can make anything work, we're trying to keep everything in lines of Takaya work and what we know of the guyver from what he has told us.

then i must change my opinion, enzymes can not bond with guyver armor

[jedi-guyver]

Ok since this topic has nowhere else to go i was thinking that if we were using fan-fiction based off of Brians site, that if an enyzme 1,2, or 3 were to copmbined with a warrior or assainian class unit that they would beable to combined with it as thoughs two units are adaptive to the enyzmes blood.

If that were to ever happen what an impressive sight that would be. Think about it at least 25% stronger then the PGZ to 400% stronger. I'm propally wrong on thoughs numbers but a GE or a WGE would be spectacullar(sp)

[Guest]

I know what'll happen, it would turn into the uglyest thing humans ever saw! But seriously, I believe that would look like the monster that I believe Atom, I could be wrong on the name, turned into on the last anime episode and just stick a unit ball on the head and give it swords on the elbows, and there you have it, a Guyver Enzme, or something.