Guest Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 ... ... ... ... What does frequency have to do with either inducing a current with an electromagnetic field (EMP) or a high-voltage electrostatic generator (Van de Graaff generator) giving a rather nasty bit of ESD? That and I wouldn't necessarily use the Borg if you mean to refer to actual physics. Trek writers tend to be as scientifically adept as Mihoshi is adept at landing her ship.
Thunder Demon Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 Well, radio waves are a type of EMP (if I remember my Freshmen Physics right), we don't have just one radio station for say, everyone. We have multiples (Dunno the exact number). Anyway, you can make the last jump from there.
Armageddon Posted February 1, 2004 Posted February 1, 2004 A possible vulnerability but that depends on the level of technology and its ability to adapt. Electricity and EMP is only a problem if 1) It directly affects the frequency used by the nanites and 2) The nanites are electronic based instead of optical or other alternative technology. A good example of advance nanites that are electronic based would be Star Trek Borg. Highly advance but still vulnerable to high frequency energy discharges and certain forms of radiation. Though in large numbers they can adapt to nearly anything. Nanites also have the advantage over viruses because they can work together so millions or more can easily act as one. So FOG3 you better have a random frequency generator attached to that Van de Graaff generator or you're going to have one ticked off Cyber Guyver on your hands Speaking of which, there are still at least two other Guyver fan fic characters that use Nanites. Can anyone name them? 1) Since we're on this topic and you brought up nano technology, would a standard Guyver be able to adapt to Borg Nano Probes? Would it need help to do this? 2) Would a Warrior Guyver Unit be able to adapt to this or would it need help?
*zeo Posted February 2, 2004 Posted February 2, 2004 ... ... ... ...What does frequency have to do with either inducing a current with an electromagnetic field (EMP) or a high-voltage electrostatic generator (Van de Graaff generator) giving a rather nasty bit of ESD? That and I wouldn't necessarily use the Borg if you mean to refer to actual physics. Trek writers tend to be as scientifically adept as Mihoshi is adept at landing her ship. Frequency has a lot to do with how energy effects matter FOG3. Power alone does not always cause damage. A plasma glode for example uses high voltage but the frequency is too high to interact with our nervous system. So the energy passes harmlessly through us. Nanites of the type we are talking about would operate at their own frequency. To best effect them the energy used to zap them would have to match their frequency. Simple electro static discharge would not even hit all of them as ESD travel through the points of greatest conductance and that is rarely through a body, let alone throughout the whole body. So ESD based attack would be very localized unless you use up enough energy to ionize every square inch of the target. I.E.> Light up the target like a lightbulb. Which is a very inefficient way of going about it. EMP, which are basically radiowaves, is more effective because it covers a much wider range of frequencies. Just like a white noice generator for a sound weapon. This combines with the energy of the attack for maximum effect. But EMP can be shielded and ESD can be grounded. So effectiveness as I said before would depend on the level of technology the nanites use. As for Star Trek, they may be off on a lot of things but as far as how the Borg nanites work they aren't that far off. Use of high frequency and such is actually scientifically accurate. To counter nanites you need something that will affect them all at once. Because if any survive then you would quickly be back at square one. As for how they would effect a Guyver, unless specifically designed to adapt to the Guyver nanites would be easily neutralized. If they do adapt then it would depend on whether they are more advance than the Guyver CM. For WG this wouldn't even be a concern.
Thunder Demon Posted February 14, 2004 Posted February 14, 2004 Yes, and if you look at the frequency, it's stated as the inverse of the length of the radio wave. And as itwas mentioned, EMP ranges from 0-who knows what frequency. Anyway, you have radio waves, the lowest form, IR (infrared) waves that basically heat stuff up, your lightwaves that help see color, UV rays which is what basically why you don't go sunbathing without sun block on, microwaves like those used in your everyday household appliance, and X-Rays such like those used to see inside of your body to look at bones. UV, X-Ray and microwaves all are radioactive. that is they screw up yor body. Frequency, like what was said is everything on an EMP or EMW. It basically determines what comes out.
Guest Posted February 15, 2004 Posted February 15, 2004 If there were a lethel (not a lethel virus to humans, only to Guyvers) it would attack the control metal because that is a Guyver's weakness (it isn't a weakness to some Guyvers anyway) and if the virsus is to kill a Guyver, it would destroy the control metal first, unless the virus is to weaken the host first (like a cold). if the virus is to weaken the host, it would attack the human cells first, because that's what the Guyvers need to live, it would look like a common cold because a cold weakens a person to the point that they can't move, then when the host is weakened, it would affect the Unit, like the host wouldn't be able to call out the Guyver, but of course it would start out small, then the Guyver unit would start to malfunction that the host wouldn't be able to control himself/herself, and the Guyver would be in control, but the Bio Boosted armour will still be disabled. Then the virus would destroy the brain cells in the host and in the Guyver control metal, then eventually the Guyver and the host would die, and the Unit would be completely dead, as in it don't work no more. But this process would take three days at the least, to a week because that's how long a cold can last in a human and the virus would act a one. I call this Virus, The Guyver Head-Cold Virus. But if the virus is to just destroy the Unit, then it would just attack the Brain cells of the Unit, then the Unit would just die in three days, but the host would be freed from the Guyver. I call this Virus, Guyver Pox.
Guest Posted February 15, 2004 Posted February 15, 2004 Ok, but what if Chronos deisgned a Virus that kept changing faster then the Guyver unit could heal the damage it did to the host, something that evolved way too fast for a Guyver to become immune against. And Chronos would surely be able to cook something like that up, I mean they've got all this other tech, I'm sure they can create a Hyper Evolution Guyver Virus that could brake down or dease the guyver armor so much that it would become useless to the host and then kill the host too. But hey, I'm just saying.
Thunder Demon Posted February 15, 2004 Posted February 15, 2004 Okay, hold it. You're talking about something that has to dissolve, grow, divide, and mutate within the span of approximately 15 minutes or less. Currently, there are bacteria an viruses that move through those in twice that time. You'd have to double the metabolism, and decrease the food requirements. Neither of which is currently available of doing right now. Also, this is starting to sound like AIDS to me... Not cool.
Guest Posted February 15, 2004 Posted February 15, 2004 Attacking the human alone at first won't work because the boost armor will automatically restore the host (the armor won't even come off until the host is fully restored). The boost armor disolving enzyme (according to the manga) was taken from a sample of Guyver II. Suppose another sample could be obatined... thus creating a virus that is a modified boost armor sample. A modified sample of boost armor stands a pretty good chance of keeping up with the Guyver's metabolic rate. How to modifiy it then becomes the next question, but you do have many options. My personal method would be simple. Make it infectious; make it convert regular boost armor cells into the virus form (which is similiar to viral and genetic engineering methods). This allows full infection of a boost armor user (guyver). Next modification would be method of attack. This has to be two fold; as the control metal will try to fight back, and the point is to eliminate the guyver once and for all. To prevent the control metal from succesfully stoping the virus, on a cellular level all signal receptors must be blocked (this should be simple). For those that don't understand, let me explain. The control metal instructs the armor on what form to take, and when to grow. The control metal without question regulates everything. To do this is must be sending out a signal to all boost armor cells. I suggested long ago that resonance frequencies could be sent across the body to control cellular functions on a molecular level. Zeo added that magnetic fields might also be used. (the latest volume has an interesting evidence, but that might be control metal with gigantic power amp crystal, which would explain why the shoulder pod didn't respond-more data still needed). Any way, blocking any signal the cells recieve from the control metal should help prevent them from being converted back into healthy cells (and note: I said 'help', cells that are still healthy can tear them apart and rebuild healthy ones, so it's still a metabolic race) With the control metal signals made useless, the guyver becomes the parasytic monster thingy, only the control metal didn't even have to be ripped out. Since a virus can be delivered in many ways (such as bullet), it becomes a lot easier than trying to rip out the control metal. Still, dealing with the parasyte isn't fun. The best option for such a deadly creature is to destroy it. That would meen that every virus cell would have to destroy itself, but garantee that it infects all the other boost armor cells. A kill timer is flawed because it does not offer this garantee. I would use a paradox, I would force it to eat itself alive (a bit different than the anime). The next modification for the virus would be that it tears apart one of it's own critical protiens and searches to obtain a new one from an un-infected boost armor cell. Once all cells of a guyver are infected, there are no more proteins, and the guyver essentially falls apart in a pile of goo. Next strategy, pick up the control metal from the pile of goo (remember, all bio material has been destroyed, it can't regenerate anything). Find a way to purge it of all human data (that's what the unit remover does). Then, if you back track what I wrote up above, you'll remember that we created this virus from a sample of guyver tissue. Reintroduce the tissue sample to the control metal, hopefully the control metal will attempt to bend the tissue sample to it's will, and a new unit-g can be formed (at the most you might have to purge any human cells from the tissue sample as well). This then allows a zoalord to take over the incredible power that a unit-g provides
Guest Posted February 15, 2004 Posted February 15, 2004 I don't think that the Unit would affect a weak common cold because it doesn't like harmful at first, but in my virus, it would work just like that, then after the host has been weakened, it would attack the Unit, but if the Unit would defeat the virus in the host first, then I change the affect on the Unit first instead of the host first.
*zeo Posted February 16, 2004 Posted February 16, 2004 Here's a simple solution, create a bacterial infection based off Enzyme. A bacteria that naturally produces either the Enzyme or acid if they lost how to make the original Enzyme to break down the Guyver. Then just inject it into the Guyver and like blood poisoning it would quickly kill the host as the bacteria spreads and multiplies and then dissolve the Guyver from within till at most the only thing left would be the Control Medal. It'll be rendered harmless once it is done with its victim since air neutrallizes the Enzyme so just spray some disinfectant to kill off the bacteria when done to clean up the mess. So just like the bacteria they use to clean up oil spills they could come up with one to deal with the Guyver but that would be one heck of an advance bio-engineering. Though a definite possibility if Takaya ever considers it.
Guest Posted February 16, 2004 Posted February 16, 2004 Yeah zeo, that's what I was thinking of. Just look at the way a Komodo Dragon kills its prey. Because it eats dead rotting carcuses, its developed a natural bacteria in is mouth that it spreads when ever it bites an animal. Even if it dosen't kill it, the wound has been infected with the bacteria. 1) The wound dosen't heal at all and rots. 2) Some hours later the bacteria has spread through the animals blood stream causing blood poisoning, and the animal dies. I think some scientists believe that the Komodo may even be naturally immune to the bacteria itself, seeing as they are not affected by it.
Thunder Demon Posted February 16, 2004 Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) You could feasibly take that and use it as a base for the virus. I know, I know, bacteria and viruses aren't the same. Still, think about it. Edited February 17, 2004 by Guest
Guest Posted February 16, 2004 Posted February 16, 2004 I don't think that bacteria and viruses are the same. If they were the same, we humans are the same as normal viruses.
Thunder Demon Posted February 17, 2004 Posted February 17, 2004 Ooops. Typo. da Changes have been made.
Guest Posted February 17, 2004 Posted February 17, 2004 Zeo, I think your bacteria idea is far superior compared to the virus one we are talking about. Kudos, I love it. It's been a while since I've ever had to read up on oil spills and bacteria. I know what you are talking about, I just don't know the stats. How fast can your bacteria produce the enzyme? Can the bacteria feed on the dissolved guyver goo to replicate more bacteria? The flaw I think is that if the bacteria can't generate enzyme fast enough, the boost armor cells will go through the already dissolved goo and tear apart the bacteria before it can generate more enzyme. This shouldn't be too much of a challenge for Chronos to make though. Balcus has already modified Aptom to quickly morph into anything, developed the high speed healing Enzyme III, and a few others that just might be useing a high metabolism to achieve this. (so it seems the boost armor isn't the only with with a hi metabolic rate) Strangly enough, the lower level zoanoids and ZoaLord Gyuo have not demonstrated high speed healing without outside assistance, so it may be a high biotech thing that Chronos is still trying to genetically perfect. I'd say Balcus could do your Bacteria idea as if it were nothing. Good job Zeo
Thunder Demon Posted February 18, 2004 Posted February 18, 2004 Yes, kudos to you. My hat's off to you.
*zeo Posted February 18, 2004 Posted February 18, 2004 Interesting enough oil eating bacteria works by producing enzyme to break down the oil and eat the resulting by products so yes the bacteria I envision for our theoretical discussion would eat the "goo" left after the enzyme does its job. This is a continuous process though so unlikely the Guyver would get a chance to fight, the bacteria would basically be coated with the stuff, back unless it somehow figures a way to poison the bacteria and/or produce its own anti-biotic which is unlikely. Unless of course Balcus miscalculates and does not account for an unknown element present in the Bio-Armor that can be lethal to the bacteria. As for the natural stuff it isn't that fast (ever watched fungus grow?) and doesn't really have to be to do the job. It's mainly a matter of numbers and time. So the larger the initial infection the faster the process will be. But I do assume Balcus would make it work really fast. Though only real problem I can see is if the specific enzyme used to break down the Bio-Armor is so hard to produce that only a large organism like a Zoanoid can produce it in enough quantity for it to be used as a weapon. Or if they have to settle for a weaker enzyme that works slow enough for the Guyver to fight off the bacteria and recover. Hmm, but on the other hand it would make for an interesting upgrade to the Enzyme Zoanoid design. Say a dart like weapon that injects something like my hypothetical bacterial to poison and slow down the Guyver. So even a partial success could produce some interesting results.
Thunder Demon Posted February 18, 2004 Posted February 18, 2004 As for the natural stuff it isn't that fast (ever watched fungus grow?) and doesn't really have to be to do the job. It's mainly a matter of numbers and time. So the larger the initial infection the faster the process will be. But I do assume Balcus would make it work really fast. No, i haven't watched fungus grow. Come to think of it, I don't think I really want to. As for the actual bacteria we're talking about, I think that it could happen (maybe)
Guest Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Next strategy, pick up the control metal from the pile of goo (remember, all bio material has been destroyed, it can't regenerate anything). Find a way to purge it of all human data (that's what the unit remover does). Then, if you back track what I wrote up above, you'll remember that we created this virus from a sample of guyver tissue. Reintroduce the tissue sample to the control metal, hopefully the control metal will attempt to bend the tissue sample to it's will, and a new unit-g can be formed (at the most you might have to purge any human cells from the tissue sample as well). This then allows a zoalord to take over the incredible power that a unit-g provides Could it really be possible for Chronos to purge all of the host's dna from a sample of the guyver's tissue? If so they could probably use that tissue sample to study, and use in engineering some new zoanoid desgin. Then again maybe that's taking it too far.
Sully Posted June 16, 2004 Posted June 16, 2004 Its impossible due to the fact the host data is stored inside the control medal. Which is not desolved by the Enzyme. For it to do any more would destroy the unit is it would then unusable. The ONLY way to remove a unit so it can be used is from a Unit Remover.
Guest Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 Well scratch that idea. Thanks for clearing it up though Sully.
Guest Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 Well you could remove the unit with the remover and take a sample of the organisim from the groves in the "armor" That would help.
Sully Posted June 17, 2004 Posted June 17, 2004 Well you could remove the unit with the remover and take a sample of the organisim from the groves in the "armor" That would help. Ok explain wy you think that in more detail, as I can't see why (note to others I said for him to explain this not you ).
Recommended Posts