Strength Level, 100 Men to Weightage

[gelionlegends]

Hi, just a thought but in every data file it gives the strength level of either Guyvers and Zoanoids on up from basic to advanced units and forms like Warrior Guyver and Zoalords.

Though it may have been asked, what I would like to know is how much each being, Guyver and Zoanoids and up, can lift besides saying they have the strength of 100 men or 200 men but what is the weight like 1 ton, 2 tons like that so if anyone has any idea on how to do a basic translation from men to weight lifted then could you please tell me?

[*zeo]

Everyone has their own idea of what the multiples of man power means. Like going by average the average healthy male can lift around 200 pounds. But generally speaking when multiples of man power are referred to it is basically referring to multiples of peak human potential. Just like horse power refers to a specific ideal potential, so too does multiples of man power.

So that leaves what you may think peak human potential is, for many it's has been set to the ability to lift a mass over one's head with arms full extended for a mass of up to 800 pounds, or 0.4 ton. Meaning if someone is rated with the strength of 5 men then that person can lift up to 2 tons, 10 men then equal 4 tons, 25 men equals 10 tons, 100 men equals 40 tons and so forth.

Of course there are other factors, the human body for example doesn't use 100% of its muscle mass all the time. Instead we only use about 1/5 of our muscles at any one time. Even a pro-athlete may only use no more than 1/3. While the only time we do use 100% is during life and death situations and is why a mother for example could suddenly have the strength to lift a car to save her child, etc.

Real life example,

This is because it is more efficient and safe for our body to limit itself. Like if you notice if you try to lift something that looks light but is really heavy then the first time you try it won't budge but once your brain realizes the true weight then the second time you do lift it. Conversely if the object is lighter than it looks then you could apply too much force the first time you try. All because your brain and body are set to use minimum effort as possible to both conserve energy and prevent over straining your body.

Zoanoids though probably use 100% of their muscle mass since they do not demonstrate any variance in there stated strength levels. Also unless the ratio between bone and muscles are off then you'd need around 100% to risk tearing your own body apart like Zoaniods sometimes do.

Like the test of strength shown between Gregole (15 men) and Malmut (10 men) would normally have forced Malmut to his knees before risking breaking of his forearms but instead Gregole snapped his forearms while both were still standing.

This compared to the test of strength shown in the original OAV series between the out of control G1 and G3, which forced G3 to his knee before G1 finally woke up. Despite any possible strength difference in defense mode, which most likely allows use of 100% of the muscles mass, G3 was not in any immediate risk of having his forearms snapped.

This however illustrates that like regular humans Guyvers may not use their full strength potential all the time, though most likely they do use closer to 100% than regular humans do or at least are capable of calling upon that potential on command.

Like the battle with Zerebubuth vs G1, Zerebubuth's impact absorbing armor rendered G1's punches and kicks useless but G1 was able to penetrate Zerebubuth's armor using his peak strength and both legs slamming down hard on Zerebubuth's back and penetrating its armor.

Keep in mind though Guyver strength isn't actually stated, instead it has only been insinuated that the power of the host has been increased 100 fold, though "fold" generally does mean peak potential when referring to strength and this seems to be born out by how the different Guyvers have compared to each other.

For example, though Sho is clearly the weakest of the three he still holds his own as a Guyver. If the Guyver brings the host to peak potential then this would act like an equalizing factor and explains why G2 couldn't handle G1 as easily as an adult military trained male would handle a young teenager boy.

If the units only amplified the host existing strength then G1 shouldn't have been able to really block any of G2's blows, every punch should have sent G1 flying whether he blocked it or not. G1 shouldn't even have been able to jump the same distances as G2.

But we know from the data files that the Guyver Unit instantly remodels the host body, regressing non-essential organs like the stomach since Guyvers don't need to eat, and replacing and augmenting other organs, while the bones and muscles are merged with the organism and infused with energy.

This is thus what we know about the Guyver.

Zoalords on the other hand are more of a mystery, they possess immense power but most of this seems to stem from their Zoacrystals. While their battle form grants them specific abilities much like Hyper Zoanoids. All we really know is they appear to have Guyver level strength in human form and a large range of abilities like the ability to produce barrier shields and fly. But even that may not be all equal. Shin for example once demonstrated he could fly at about mach 4 but except for Alkanphel and Imakarum it does not appear the others are capable of this sort of speed.

[gelionlegends]

So i did a chart to show the levels of men to tons.

So a strength of 200 men is equal to 80 tons which is how strong the gigantic is.

While if i got the sum right for the guyver zoanoid has the strength of 1500 men which is 600 tons.

The chart using your formula goes from 5 men up to 10,000 men and so the tons goes from 2 tons up to 4000 tons.

Though how do you calculate the boost given from the guyver unit when someone has say 5 men or 20 men already?

As gregore has the strength of 15 men and bonded to a standard unit would that mean he would have greater strength than a standard guyver same with vamore and ramotith would be still stronger than a standard unit.

But i think i asked this else where but how strong is the zoanoid that became the guyver zoanoid?

Also with the vamore bonded with a WG or zerebubuth powered form is bonded give WGV 1000 men and the GPZ 4000 men.

Though it confuses me how the strength to boosted states are done?

[*zeo]

So i did a chart to show the levels of men to tons.

So a strength of 200 men is equal to 80 tons which is how strong the gigantic is.

Well that was the old estimate for the Gigantic, mind we know more about the Gigantic now and put it's power level much higher than before. Though strength level is still unknown I would put it at a conservative level of 5x the base Guyver, similar to the established ratings for some of the Gigantic's other abilities. Though in terms of raw power the Gigantic has 20x the power of a regular Guyver and this is shown through abilities like the power punch (aka Gravity Knuckles). Basically the new power scale makes the Gigantic even stronger than the base level of a WG.

Similarly the power level of Zoalords has also been adjusted.

Though how do you calculate the boost given from the guyver unit when someone has say 5 men or 20 men already?

I go by the idea of relative potential as the actual multiplier and a general idea that increasing power levels become increasingly harder to achieve. Mind most zoaforms are specialized so their abilities don't necessarily reflect their actual power level. Like a WG can focus all of its energy to one limb to boost the strength of that one limb but it wouldn't change the overall power level.

Though depending on that special ability it could get enhanced further than the other abilities depending on how it works and how it could possibly interact with the Guyver... Like WG Vamore lasers got upgraded to Hyper Smashers for example.

As gregore has the strength of 15 men and bonded to a standard unit would that mean he would have greater strength than a standard guyver same with vamore and ramotith would be still stronger than a standard unit.

Yes, zoaforms have more potential than unenhanced humans and thus can be boosted to higher levels but as mentioned before I balance that by focusing more on what the host body bio-potential might be and not just on how it's designed.

But i think i asked this else where but how strong is the zoanoid that became the guyver zoanoid?

A low strength class like Vamore or like a scout, strength range is like 2-5 men for those types.

[gelionlegends]

Yes well how do you do the calculation as i don't see how a WG vamore gets the strength of 1000 men, or the powered zerebubuth the 4000 men?

The guyver zoanoid in his data file is stated to be a unit commander and i would have thought that he would be fairly strong like ramotith.

Though he does look like a water type zoanoid.

So what sort of sums do you use to help do this, as if i did a vamore with a standard unit or any of the others 5 men, 10, 15, 60, 90 men what would they be boosted as?

so could a guyver vamore be 500 men, 200 men or 300 men?

As i know that with a warrior guyver unit the vamore goes to 1000 men as the unit a WG is 400 men.

Though strength level is still unknown I would put it at a conservative level of 5x the base Guyver

So a gigantic has the strength of 500 men thus 200 tons.

Though i think i maybe confused when you talk about raw power terms, as do you mean the weapons the gigantic unit has access to being 20x more powerful like the mega smasher or as they are called hyper smashers being greater than the WG own?

Same with its other weapons being greater.

Though depending on that special ability it could get enhanced further than the other abilities depending on how it works and how it could possibly interact with the Guyver... Like WG Vamore lasers got upgraded to Hyper Smashers for example.

Though i can see how such special abilities or the design type of the zoanoid and hyper zoanoids getting the most boosted out of bonding with a guyver unit.

Like how a Derzerb could get the his heat generation ability greatly enhanced so his napalm attack would be greater, the inferno ram attack it can do would thus be even hotter and likely his armour skin would be even greater, and these three things would be noticed either first or secondary after either the speed increase or strength increase?

[*zeo]

There isn't exactly a specific formula as each Zoaform is unique and has to be considered individually. Each zoaform has different strengths and different weaknesses. So I factor pretty much the whole package...

Basically though characters that have abilities based more on how they are designed than how much energy they actually generate get a ~1/4 to 1/2 boost increase compared to their strength level depending on the type of unit they are bonded to. Mind any special abilities would have to be considered with how they would integrate with the Guyver and the likely type of enhancements and/or alterations.

While characters like the Bio-Titans, who's abilities are directly representative of their Bio-Energy, would get closer to the full equivalent boost.

Mind that with the re-write we may be assimilating more of the details from the Manga and the obviously higher power level of the Gigantic but there's still a lot of guess work and we don't all agree how to proceed with the restructuring of character abilities.

Like for example, if you look up the Guyver Zoanoid DF now you'll see he now has the strength of 1500 men and is stated as being physically stronger than the Gigantic...

[Azaar]

Ouch... Guyver Zoanoid is that buff now, huh?

I admit, this makes me wonder (and cringe a bit) -- 15x is nearly 4x a Warrior Guyver, and still 50% over and above Matrix-enhanced WG/Jason. Unless those power levels are increasing as well -- if not, good night... it'll be a lot easier to understand why it'll take four years before the American ACTF is finally able to start driving back Chronos.

[Sully]

Ouch... Guyver Zoanoid is that buff now, huh?

I admit, this makes me wonder (and cringe a bit) -- 15x is nearly 4x a Warrior Guyver, and still 50% over and above Matrix-enhanced WG/Jason. Unless those power levels are increasing as well -- if not, good night... it'll be a lot easier to understand why it'll take four years before the American ACTF is finally able to start driving back Chronos.

Yeah there are a lot of things to consider like this with the rewrite.

The Guyver Zoanoid wasn't exactly used well. This time around he will be the early power house of Chronos, a being stronger than that of a Gigantic Guyver. But like all characters there are checks and balances. Guyver Zoanoid is very strong, but his mega-smasher would be only around twice that of a normal Guyver to rivaling that of a Warrior Guyver. His vibrational blades on the other hand would be the same as a normal Guyver meaning he wouldn't want to get in a sword fight with Warrior Guyver. The Warrior Guyver has ulmited stamina, Guyver Zoanoid does not. But how long would Warrior Guyver be able to stand against him in the first place?

Warrior Guyver isn't going to be boosted fan-fic wise, he will stay where he is. Bare in mind this verison of the story it is Gigantic Guyver and the Gigantic Dark by this stage that are the major threats from the "good guys". Warrior Guyver and Warrior Guyver 2 by the time Revenge is done basically have two major foes to fear while the Zoalords are being reprocessed and Alkanphel sleets, namely the Guyver Zoanoid and Kron.

They also have their own issues and stories to follow as before, though this time Guyver Zoanoid won't be such a non character.

[*zeo]

The Warrior Guyver has ulmited stamina, Guyver Zoanoid does not. But how long would Warrior Guyver be able to stand against him in the first place?

Guyver stamina isn't that limited, it just regenerates at a slower rate than WG"s, and in close range... If WG makes the mistake of fighting fair then about 5 seconds before GZ rips him limb from limb.

Remember the Malmot vs Gregole battle? Gregole has the strength of 15 men and Malmot only 7, but that was more than enough to totally dominate and the difference between WG's 4x and GZ's 15x is even larger with nearly a full 4x difference. So a physical fight would be the last thing WG should do against GZ at that much of a strength difference.

Never mind any normal Guyver going against Guyver Zoanoid would be like a human going against a Gregole.

[Azaar]

Then how exactly do we explain the discrepancy of Guyver Zoanoid's abilities? This physical strength, at least, is far in excess of what Sean faced in Guyver 2: Dark Hero, and it seems very simplistic to simply say "well, the control medal was damaged to begin with" as a catch-all reason for why Crane wasn't more powerful still.

Not that I'm complaining, just wanting to better understand the rationale. It will be nice to see Crane more active and involved -- that's the problem when you start reaching up to a cast of thousands: inevitably some characters get short-changed. Hopefully something I can remedy with Gabe, particularly once Stellar WG takes off on down the road.

[largo]

Simple really the movies being 90's live action b scifi movie there is a limit to what they would be able to with the available technology. If they were to make a new guyver movie that had a decent budget and with the right special effects crew then yeah it probably would show an over powered bad ass.

[Sully]

Simple really the movies being 90's live action b scifi movie there is a limit to what they would be able to with the available technology. If they were to make a new guyver movie that had a decent budget and with the right special effects crew then yeah it probably would show an over powered bad ass.

This is it really. With the rewite I'd to consider this above all.

It's why I'm highly considering rewriting Mutronic someday to basically do my version of what the movie would be and should be like. You can keep the basic plot point but when it comes down to it you simply think "what would Takaya REALLY would have done?"

Simply puyt, keep the basic plot but imagine it if things where the proper power level. Guyver Zoanoid would ahve dominated the fight (which he did in the past), he most likely would have played with Guyver US and the end would be the same. The already damaged Control Medal receiving a bullet would give Guyver US the opening needed to win.

[*zeo]

"what would Takaya REALLY would have done?"

I would say he would have given Sean a way to have a fighting chance, more than just a cracked CM as that was already done with G2 and Takaya obviously likes to make his characters rise to the occasion by either becoming stronger, Gigantic and Exceed being prime examples, or a display of team work like Bio-Freezer freezing Enzyme 3's for one of the Guyvers to then finish them off.

So he would have gone either with a lower, more reasonable, advantage of say 5x strength or given Sean access to something that would have helped even the odds a bit like a Unit remover, he couldn't use it to remove as it needs Bio-Energy to power it but could have temporarily weakened GZ, or use of the Relic. Like how Sho would have used the Relic against Guyot if he didn't have Murikami as a hostage at the time. Or use one of the Guyver vulnerabilities like to sonic attacks, we've never really seen what would happen if a Guyver used its sonic busters on another Guyver but it could have been used to disorientate GZ perhaps...

Pretty much anything but a direct fair fight as a 15x difference means GZ would have totally dominated the fight and would have won it easily for a very short fight. Mind the higher strength level also means faster reflexes and speed. So Sean at least would have to be able to distract GZ well enough for Cori to get a clean shot without GZ just deflecting it like Sean did to that thug at the beginning of the movie.

Mind also a Manga conversion means better hyper sensors too than shown in the movie... Though considering Sean learned the hard way that the CM was the Guyver's one weak spot in the first movie, it was surprising he didn't try to get more head shots during the fight but could have GZ easily blocking those attempts until Cori's bullet gives him the opening.

Though another problem with the bullet strike is we know Guyver head beams can intercept and vaporize bullets pretty quick... So I'd suggest Atkins fired at the same time too and his shot got zapped but allowed Cori's shot to get through maybe.