Limitations to a Guyver's Telepathic Link

[Shenzon]

I have a question, can a Guyver call out to their relic in space to teleport them aboard while on the surface of the earth? If so, how far does that reach?

[*zeo]

Star Trek style teleportation has never been shown in the Manga.

The closest was when the Relic was blown up it teleported the Gigantic Cocoon and the other passengers to different parts of the world. But that was from the Relic and was most likely just a spacial displacement and not an actual matter/energy transportation.

Also a Guyver needs to be close to the Relic to have any kind of control over it. Sho had to expose his CM by having it fully extend out before he took full control of the Relic.

[Shenzon]

But if a Guyver was on Earth and had his relic orbiting the planet, could he contact it and command it to teleport him aboard? With the Relic being Guyver like, wouldn't it have some kind of ability to be contacted beyond close quarters like the Guyvers do to each other across the world from the organisms on their backs?

[*zeo]

No, at best a Guyver would have to be on the Relic to teleport the Guyver on the planet.

And that's assuming the Relic is capable of teleporting something from a distance.

Note the Gigantic has to come to the Guyver, it doesn't bring the Guyver to it.

[Shenzon]

Ahhh...I see. I'd always wonder if a pilots bond with his ship extended outside it when he left it. I thought maybe the ship had some type of organs that allowed it to communicate like the Guyver's organisms on the backs or something.

That's true about the Gigantic, as it is made of mostly relic.

[Tyranthrax]

No, at best a Guyver would have to be on the Relic to teleport the Guyver on the planet.

And that's assuming the Relic is capable of teleporting something from a distance.

Note the Gigantic has to come to the Guyver, it doesn't bring the Guyver to it.

Also note that the Guyver call the Gigantic to them, they're not demanding they be brought to it. For all we know, it may very well be possible to command a Relic to warp you aboard.

[*zeo]

Maybe but this has never been shown throughout the entire Manga and like I said before, you would still need someone to pilot the Relic and tell it to do that first.

[Shenzon]

Maybe but this has never been shown throughout the entire Manga and like I said before, you would still need someone to pilot the Relic and tell it to do that first.

But couldn't it be contacted through the Guyver's organism? I know I've never seen it done, I was wondering if anyone else has.

[*zeo]

Contacted yes, controlled no!

[Tyranthrax]

Contacted yes, controlled no!

I'd not state something that could be incorrect Zeo. Though nothing has said it can happen, nor has anything stated it can't. So to correct your statement:

Contacted, possible; controlled, possible.

[*zeo]

Sorry but no, it is like I said.

Contact yes but control no.

I don't make that statement lightly.

Every single example of interaction between the Guyver and a Relic has always been in proximity.

The very fact the Guyver has to expose it's CM by fully extending it outward even when in proximity to the Relic is more than enough proof of this.

The Guyver wouldn't have to do that unless it required a strong signal with high bandwidth to control the Relic.

And G1 didn't gain control over the Relic until he had entered the control chamber and the Relic accepted him as the pilot.

Even the Live Action Movie Dark Hero showed Sean fully extending his CM and he was right outside the Relic.

This is not Star Trek we are talking about here. It takes a lot of power and control to hyper jump.

So a Guyver won't be able to control a Relic from the surface of the planet if the Relic is in orbit.

[McAvoy]

In both instances where both Movie Guyver and Guyver 1 extended their control medals out, they were literally piloting the ship or doing some highly intensive stuff (like have information downloaded into you and so forth). But for let's say easier things such as linking up with the relic to communicate with it (simple talk) or maybe even limited teleportation might be possible.

[Shenzon]

In both instances where both Movie Guyver and Guyver 1 extended their control medals out, they were literally piloting the ship or doing some highly intensive stuff (like have information downloaded into you and so forth). But for let's say easier things such as linking up with the relic to communicate with it (simple talk) or maybe even limited teleportation might be possible.

Exactly....That's what I'm trying to say. If a Guyver does contact the ship to teleport him onboard, then obviously he has already been accepted as the pilot. From what I can tell, the ships are grown to serve their pilots at all costs. So why couldn't he just contact it, and ask it to teleport him aboard if he didn't have the ability teleport?

Another example of this, would be right before Guyver one became Gigantic while he was being vaporized, he contacted the ship and ask or commanded it to teleport his friends to a safe place. Upon his death, the ship did as he asked it or commanded it to. His control medal didn't extend, he was outside the ship, plus he was dying.

So it could be possible....

[Tyranthrax]

Sorry but no, it is like I said.

No, it is not, as nothing canon has stated it to be so. For all we know, it's possible for the Guyver to control it. They didn't do so before, why; they didn't know they could. They haven't done so now, why; there is no Relic for them to attempt it.

Contact yes but control no.

Again, I would not directly say they CAN contact the Relic via the ORGANISMS ON THEIR BACKS, as they haven't shown able to do so. You yourself stated they used their CONTROL MEDALLION to interact with the Relic.

So it could be possible....

I believe it is a possibility and will maintain that thought until is has been PROVEN otherwise. Just because something interacts in ONE way, does NOT mean there are not other ways to do so.

I mean, seriously Zeo, you can't just expect the Guyver to know every single thing they can possibly do with the Relic, for they didn't even begin their lives as Guyver knowing how all their abilities worked. They had to learn.

[*zeo]

Seriously guys, teleportation is nothing simple. And it has absolutely nothing to do with a learning curve.

There's absolutely no way you can compare simple telepathic communications with the requirements of commanding the Relic to teleport someone.

Aside from the power requirements hyper jumping requires pinpoint navigation that simply won't be possible for the Guyver to give the Relic over a long distance.

It would be much easier for the Relic to bring itself to the Guyver.

Never mind there is no such thing as teleporting in the actual Manga. They really only have hyper space jumps, worm hole like dimensional warps, or dimensional portals.

And the only beings to have demonstrated these types are Alkanphel and the Gigantic Cocoon.

Zoalords like Shin don't teleport over long distance they fly. The Ark also doesn't have that capability. All the Zoalords have either flown to it or used the shuttle pod craft.

In fact the Gigantic has never teleported, only the Cocoon has hyper jumped and the only part of the Gigantic that regularly goes in and out of hyper space.

And if it was possible for the Gigantic to bring the Guyver to it don't you think it would at least do that when the Gigantic is deactivated?

Fact is whenever the Gigantic is deactivated the Cocoon comes to collect it. It never just comes off.

Even when Agito ripped it from Sho it was shown going back into the Cocoon before disappearing.

As for what is cannon, the Guyvers had no control over the Relic even after they were shown it until after they entered it and went to the Control Chamber.

G3 was right there and never showed he could control it.

Even the Gigantic remained under Sho's control until after he had passed it to Agito for the first time.

The Relic requires the pilot to mentally link with it to pilot it. This can't be done over long range.

And for your information Shenzon G1 was right on top of the Relic and he was blasted right back into it when Alkanphel redirected the Mega Smasher beams back at him and G3.

But aside from the Fact G1 was technically inside the Relic at that point since we can clearly see Relic material all around them, you miss the FACT that the Relic Navigation CM's came to G1 and protected his CM before anything happened. No one was teleported before that happened.

The Relic CM's were in direct contact with G1's CM when the command was given.

Never mind the idea of G1 doing that if he was over 100 miles away as he would be if the Relic was in orbit and he was on the ground and that's assuming the Relic is directly overhead.

Telepathy does have range limit in the Guyver series.

Even Zoalords need amplifiers to control zoanoids over long distances and you guys want to believe the Guyver can remote control the Relic while it's over 100 miles away?

I mean seriously guys this is simple. The Relic can't be controlled without a strong interface that even at close range requires the Guyver to fully expose their CM and we know telepathy in the Guyver universe is just as limited as radio.

The further away they are the weaker the link.

We know that much to be absolute fact!

Given that there is no way for the Guyver to command the Relic over a long distance to hyper jump it.

Like I said before the only way it could possibly work is if there is a Guyver already on the Relic who could command it to bring the other Guyver aboard.

Also remember the hyper jump has it's limits too.

Again this isn't real teleportation, the Gigantic had to physically move from point A to point B, it just used hyper space as a short cut.

And you're basically arguing that the Relic can create a hyper jump point from where the Guyver is to where the Relic is.

The Guyver host also doesn't need to know everything they can do. They just need it to be done for the Unit to respond.

Sho had never seen or used the Gravity Ram attack for example yet right after getting the Gigantic back he used that attack.

Sorry but you can't confuse what is possible in the Manga with what is possible in the fan fic. We bend a lot of rules in the fan fic.

[Tyranthrax]

Seriously guys, teleportation is nothing simple. And it has absolutely nothing to do with a learning curve.

YES, it does. Guyver I didn't know he could use the Pressure Cannon until, -GASP!-, the Unit SHOWED him how. He didn't know he could fly until Guyver III both told him it was possible and how he could go about doing it.

There's absolutely no way you can compare simple telepathic communications with the requirements of commanding the Relic to teleport someone.

Aside from the power requirements hyper jumping requires pinpoint navigation that simply won't be possible for the Guyver to give the Relic over a long distance.

It would be much easier for the Relic to bring itself to the Guyver.

Actually, sending a command can be done through 'simple telepathic communications'. It's as easy as, "Oh, wha'zup Relic? Me, not much. Say, could you teleport me aboard? Thanks." Man, that was a hard one. Next.

The Guyver wouldn't have to give the Relic this 'pinpoint navigation'. Generally, the object that is doing the teleportation has the required information to perform such a feat. Otherwise, it wouldn't be teleporting anything, now would it? The Relic could simply perform a long-range scan to locate and then teleport the Guyver. And yes, they must have such scanners as otherwise, how would Uranus have found out about Earth's composition BEFORE even entering its atmosphere?

Of course, you're so right. Teleporting a human-sized being would be WAY easier and use up way less energy than having a massive ship move itself to the Guyver.

Never mind there is no such thing as teleporting in the actual Manga. They really only have hyper space jumps, worm hole like dimensional warps, or dimensional portals.

And the only beings to have demonstrated these types are Alkanphel and the Gigantic Cocoon.

Yeah, and those totally CAN'T be considered methods of teleportation.

Zoalords like Shin don't teleport over long distance they fly. The Ark also doesn't have that capability. All the Zoalords have either flown to it or used the shuttle pod craft.

Of course, when a being doesn't have the capability to teleport, it would be difficult to do so. As for the Ark not being able to teleport; well, it is a shame it doesn't have the Relic's navigation spheres...

In fact the Gigantic has never teleported, only the Cocoon has hyper jumped and the only part of the Gigantic that regularly goes in and out of hyper space.

Yes, and using the Cocoon, the Gigantic IS teleporting. Uh next.

And if it was possible for the Gigantic to bring the Guyver to it don't you think it would at least do that when the Gigantic is deactivated?

Fact is whenever the Gigantic is deactivated the Cocoon comes to collect it. It never just comes off.

I've already answered this one. The Guyver is calling the Gigantic to COME TO IT. Not to BRING IT TO THE GIGANTIC. If the Gigantic didn't do what the Guyver commanded of it, it wouldn't be too useful a tool now would it? =\ And if it's not the Gigantic but the cocoon that possesses the ability to teleport, it only makes sense it would have to come collect its pieces.

Before you decide to try and 'one up me', and fail to do so again; a reason the cocoon might not be teleporting the Gigantic back to it is it may have lost the capability to do so, having lost a very, very, very, very, very significant amount of mass and no doubt function.

Even when Agito ripped it from Sho it was shown going back into the Cocoon before disappearing.

-Points upwards.-

As for what is cannon, the Guyvers had no control over the Relic even after they were shown it until after they entered it and went to the Control Chamber.

G3 was right there and never showed he could control it.

I've, already, answered, this, one. If they don't know they CAN, it will be hard to do so.

Even the Gigantic remained under Sho's control until after he had passed it to Agito for the first time.

Without first knowing how to call it to him, it will be hard to do so. You keep pulling up the same thing that can be answered with the same thing. Come on man, I was sure you were better than this...

The Relic requires the pilot to mentally link with it to pilot it. This can't be done over long range.

NOTHING has stated that to be a fact. For all we know, one could link with it and move to another Solar System and be able to control it. That it has been shown they extend their CM to link with it does NOT mean it HAS to be done. It is simply the means Guyver I first utilized to do so and is familiar with.

And for your information Shenzon G1 was right on top of the Relic and he was blasted right back into it when Alkanphel redirected the Mega Smasher beams back at him and G3.

But aside from the Fact G1 was technically inside the Relic at that point since we can clearly see Relic material all around them, you miss the FACT that the Relic Navigation CM's came to G1 and protected his CM before anything happened. No one was teleported before that happened.

The Relic CM's were in direct contact with G1's CM when the command was given.

Maybe this happened in the manga, as I've not managed to read/see that portion of it, but in the anime at least, even when Guyver III and the Cocoon were in that mountainous region, the Relic NSs STILL hadn't even TOUCHED GI's CM. If this did happen in the manga, it would be nice to see actual PROOF, instead of someone saying, "Oh, they were touching, and then he commanded them to do stuff."

Never mind the idea of G1 doing that if he was over 100 miles away as he would be if the Relic was in orbit and he was on the ground and that's assuming the Relic is directly overhead.

Actually, it would be like, over 200 miles away. XD

Telepathy does have range limit in the Guyver series.

Even Zoalords need amplifiers to control zoanoids over long distances and you guys want to believe the Guyver can remote control the Relic while it's over 100 miles away?

Of course, with the amplifier, hasn't Balkus said he could control EVERY ZOANOID IN THE WORLD? And, isn't Earth's diameter close to 8 THOUSAND miles?

Anyways, maybe the extending of the CM is to establish the initial link, or as McAvoy suggested, rapid exchange of large amounts of information. It may very well be possible that after the link is established, retracting the CM would still allow a lesser degree of control. They may still be able to give the Relic simple commands, such as a measly, "Teleport me aboard." It's not like he'd be asking, "Teleport Jupiter to me."

I mean seriously guys this is simple. The Relic can't be controlled without a strong interface that even at close range requires the Guyver to fully expose their CM and we know telepathy in the Guyver universe is just as limited as radio.

The further away they are the weaker the link.

We know that much to be absolute fact!

Yes, a weaker link. Not a completely severed one. Thanks for answering this one for me. <3

Given that there is no way for the Guyver to command the Relic over a long distance to hyper jump it.

Nothing has said that. You yourself said 'the weaker the link', not 'the severered the link'.

Like I said before the only way it could possibly work is if there is a Guyver already on the Relic who could command it to bring the other Guyver aboard.

Thanks for your OPINION.

Also remember the hyper jump has it's limits too.

Again this isn't real teleportation, the Gigantic had to physically move from point A to point B, it just used hyper space as a short cut.

And imagine that, teleportation is used as a short-cut to get from point A to point B. Even entering the Shadow Plane, moving through it to another point, and exiting from that point to arrive in a different place in the real world is considered teleportation. So for all intents and purposes, it would be considered 'real teleportation'.

And you're basically arguing that the Relic can create a hyper jump point from where the Guyver is to where the Relic is.

Nothing has stated it can't. =\

The Guyver host also doesn't need to know everything they can do. They just need it to be done for the Unit to respond.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'They just need it to be done for the Unit to respond.' What does the host need to be done, and what is the Unit responding to?

But yeah, they DO have to know what they can do, otherwise, they can't do it, can they? Yes, the UNIT can activate the weaponry in times of need, but the host would have no clue how to utilize it until it was first activated, or until they were told how. Remember, the Unit works by being commanded.

Sho had never seen or used the Gravity Ram attack for example yet right after getting the Gigantic back he used that attack.

No doubt the Unit had something to do with it. Go figure.

Sorry but you can't confuse what is possible in the Manga with what is possible in the fan fic. We bend a lot of rules in the fan fic.

Well thanks for clearing that up. Maybe you should tell that to people who have been doing that, as we're going with hypotheticals that haven't been proven wrong, ergo, could be possible. Thank you and have a nice day.

[*zeo]

YES, it does. Guyver I didn't know he could use the Pressure Cannon until, -GASP!-, the Unit SHOWED him how. He didn't know he could fly until Guyver III both told him it was possible and how he could go about doing it.

Gasp! The host didn't need to know how to do it only want it to happen.

And Gasp, how the hell do you think G3 learned how to do it?

Actually, sending a command can be done through 'simple telepathic communications'. It's as easy as, "Oh, wha'zup Relic? Me, not much. Say, could you teleport me aboard? Thanks." Man, that was a hard one. Next.

Aside from your statement being not based on a single shred of evidense.

When has any of the Guyvers communicated that far?

Never! Well what do you know there is a range limit.

And it is a lot more complicated than just asking the Relic. The Relic has to be able to know where you are first.

The Telepathy ain't going to tell it that!

Never mind the Relic wouldn't respond unless the Guyver first was on board to establish a link in the first place. G3 had no control over either the Relic or the Gigantic until Sho gave him control. And G3 still had to bond to the Gigantic to establish that link.

The Guyver wouldn't have to give the Relic this 'pinpoint navigation'. Generally, the object that is doing the teleportation has the required information to perform such a feat. Otherwise, it wouldn't be teleporting anything, now would it? The Relic could simply perform a long-range scan to locate and then teleport the Guyver. And yes, they must have such scanners as otherwise, how would Uranus have found out about Earth's composition BEFORE even entering its atmosphere?

The same we do, spectrum analysis. It's not magic you know.

Hyper Sensors and such have all shown to have limited range. Even if the Relic had longer range scanners it still will have to be in line of sight and have pin point accuracy.

Simple physics, it's a lot harder to create a hyper jump point far away from the device creating it than it is creating that point near the device.

Of course, you're so right. Teleporting a human-sized being would be WAY easier and use up way less energy than having a massive ship move itself to the Guyver.

Yes it would because Relic's don't violate conservation of energy. So the further away an object is the more energy it takes to establish a portal over that distance.

It takes far less energy for the Relic to create just an event horizon, go through, travel through hyper space and then create another event horizon to return to normal space at the destination.

Yeah, and those totally CAN'T be considered methods of teleportation.

Fact is they are not really teleportation anymore than Star Trek Warp Drive is teleportation. It's just another method of moving by taking a short cut.

Of course, when a being doesn't have the capability to teleport, it would be difficult to do so. As for the Ark not being able to teleport; well, it is a shame it doesn't have the Relic's navigation spheres...

It is still based off a Relic, in fact it was grown from the same Relic that became the Gigantic, and Creator technology (They Ark was designed by the Creators) and despite having the power of up to 12 Zoalords backing it it still can't be used to teleport anyone.

Yes, and using the Cocoon, the Gigantic IS teleporting. Uh next.

No, it's hyper jumping. And the fact remains the Cocoon still has to come to the Gigantic. The Gigantic can't be taken to the Cocoon.

I've already answered this one. The Guyver is calling the Gigantic to COME TO IT. Not to BRING IT TO THE GIGANTIC. If the Gigantic didn't do what the Guyver commanded of it, it wouldn't be too useful a tool now would it? =\ And if it's not the Gigantic but the cocoon that possesses the ability to teleport, it only makes sense it would have to come collect its pieces.

No you didn't answer it.

Let me be Clear, I SAID DEACTIVATE. NOT ACTIVATE!!!

The Gigantic is going back to the cocoon but never has it ever been teleported to the Cocoon. The Cocoon had to come and get it.

This compared to the normal Guyver unit which can send itself into hyper space all by itself.

Clearly the Relic technology DID NOT give that ability to the Gigantic, it has to use the Cocoon.

Before you decide to try and 'one up me', and fail to do so again; a reason the cocoon might not be teleporting the Gigantic back to it is it may have lost the capability to do so, having lost a very, very, very, very, very significant amount of mass and no doubt function.

First off your the one trying to one up when all you got is a belief. There is nothing to back your theory.

Second the loss of mass would not remove function, as you yourself suggested the function comes from the Relic CM's which the Gigantic still has.

Third the Cocoon spends virtually all its time in Hyper Space where it has limitless energy to draw from. If it could teleport then it would have already but it hasn't.

I've, already, answered, this, one. If they don't know they CAN, it will be hard to do so.

Then you entirely missed the fact that Agito saw Sho doing it so he clearly knew it was possible.

Without first knowing how to call it to him, it will be hard to do so. You keep pulling up the same thing that can be answered with the same thing. Come on man, I was sure you were better than this...

Hello, telepathy!!!

It has nothing with knowing how, Agito already knew how. He just didn't have access until it was given to him.

NOTHING has stated that to be a fact. For all we know, one could link with it and move to another Solar System and be able to control it. That it has been shown they extend their CM to link with it does NOT mean it HAS to be done. It is simply the means Guyver I first utilized to do so and is familiar with.

Many things have stated this, you just choose to ignore them or don't know about them and just made assumptions.

Fact is the CM wouldn't need to be extended unless it needed high bandwidth to establish a signal and second this also means that this signal goes through normal space, which means range limit!!!

Even for the Gigantic the CM has to extend before the Gigantic can go on the Guyver.

Then let's take the Arizona Relic for example.

It may have been fossilized but the CM's where still functional. In fact that is where Chronos got most of the knowledge on how to Zoaform, etc from.

And we've seen Relic CM's fly as the ones that Became the Gigantic floated to G1's CM and created a protective field around him even as they generated the Cocoon from the remains of the Relic.

Yet Agito could not command the Arizona Relic CM's to do anything.

And before you suggest they had no power, CM's have their own power.

When G1 regenerated from nothing but the CM it was the CM providing the power for the regeneration.

Maybe this happened in the manga, as I've not managed to read/see that portion of it, but in the anime at least, even when Guyver III and the Cocoon were in that mountainous region, the Relic NSs STILL hadn't even TOUCHED GI's CM. If this did happen in the manga, it would be nice to see actual PROOF, instead of someone saying, "Oh, they were touching, and then he commanded them to do stuff."

You're arguing with me and you haven't even read the whole Manga?

Just for your information I've read the entire Manga and gone over every single translations and those made for the Guyver Visual Data File.

But to Clarify Here's the exact chain of events...

1) Alkanphel redirected the three Smasher beams from G1 and G3 (G3 only fired one because he had lost one arm so couldn't rip open the other chest plate) and the blast hit them and smashed them into the Relic.

2) The Relic starts to disintegrate and G1 also starts to disintegrate until just his CM is left.

3) The Relic CM's float, turn away from each other and then back into each other as they merge into one

4) G1's CM is drawn to the Relic merged CM and a protective field is thrown up as the Relic CM's emit a light (same light they shined on G1 when he first linked up and started piloting the Relic)

5) Fragments of the Relic organism started to be drawn towards them and formed the Cocoon. G3 was also similarly cocooned.

6) G3 wakes up inside the protective cocoon, rips his way out and finds that his armor has mostly regenerated. He sees the Gigantic Cocoon but Chronos shows up and takes it.

Since G1's CM was within the Control CM's light field, just like he was when he first piloted the Relic, means his CM was giving the Relic CM's commands.

And the fact this happened before anyone was teleported also shows this.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT Tetsuro and the others were also sent to safety and it was a place that Sho had felt was safe, WHICH MEANS HE COMMANDED THE RELIC TO DO IT!!!

Actually, it would be like, over 200 miles away. XD

Range varies depending on mass and speed. Just to get out of the main atmosphere you have to go over 50 miles up. But it would be even further if you need it to stay in a steady position.

Never mind the complexity of opening a hyper jump point while traveling at high speed over a planet that is spinning just over 1000 mph and pin point a Guyver that may itself be moving up to 300 MPH.

Of course, with the amplifier, hasn't Balkus said he could control EVERY ZOANOID IN THE WORLD? And, isn't Earth's diameter close to 8 THOUSAND miles?

The Amplifier can boost a single Zoalord's telepathy to the power of ALL TWELVE COMBINED.

Mind you the Guyver doesn't even have a Zoalord's level of telepathy and can't control any zoanoids. So would have even less range.

For example, when G1 was facing his dad as Enzyme 2 G3 had no idea he was in danger until he felt his death cry. And he was only at most a few miles away.

Anyways, maybe the extending of the CM is to establish the initial link, or as McAvoy suggested, rapid exchange of large amounts of information. It may very well be possible that after the link is established, retracting the CM would still allow a lesser degree of control. They may still be able to give the Relic simple commands, such as a measly, "Teleport me aboard." It's not like he'd be asking, "Teleport Jupiter to me."

Here's the problem in your logic, the Relic is a living ship.

The link is needed for control over the ship, allowing the Guyver to control the ship like an extension of their own body but without that link they only have the most basic of controls. Like opening a door or turning on the lights like level control.

Nothing like the Control you would need to command the Relic to teleport someone. For that to happen the Relic has to be shown what to do.

Sho described how he was controlling the Relic, he had to visualize what he wanted and then will it to happen.

If all he has is voice telepathy communication then he can't command it to do anything complex.

Like while he was on top of the Relic with G3, he never commanded the Relic to do anything like evassive maneuvers or just fly away or even raise shields, which the Relic had.

So they just stood there and tried to take Alkanphel out with their mega smashers.

Nothing has said that. You yourself said 'the weaker the link', not 'the severered the link'.

You're missing the point, the Relic can't do anything complex unless it has a strong link to the Guyver.

Even Zoalords have basic telepathic communication with a Relic. But they can't command it to do anything. So you need more than just telepathy, you need a command link to the Relic.

Over a distance at best the Guyver might be able to command the Relic to come to him but that's it.

If you want the Relic to jump through hoops and just up and teleport someone then there has to be someone in control of the Relic to give it the complex command needed.

Hell, even Star Trek had it that someone had to be at the controls of the transporter.

And imagine that, teleportation is used as a short-cut to get from point A to point B. Even entering the Shadow Plane, moving through it to another point, and exiting from that point to arrive in a different place in the real world is considered teleportation. So for all intents and purposes, it would be considered 'real teleportation'.

By definition REAL TELEPORTATION would be "A hypothetical method of transportation in which matter or information is dematerialized, usually instantaneously, at one point and recreated at another."

Never mind the FACT that each method has its own method and limitations.

If you are going to use hyper space to teleport then you bloody better think what the limitations would be before you start spouting what could be possible or not.

To create a Hyper Space jump point requires a fairly massive amount of power, add the fact this power has to be properly focused and the impossibility of doing this over a long distance makes this discussion mute.

To put it into perspective this would be like having a Star Trek Starship in orbit and have it use it's warp drive to send someone on the planet into warp while the ship is in orbit.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'They just need it to be done for the Unit to respond.' What does the host need to be done, and what is the Unit responding to?

The Unit has repeatedly shown it will respond to the host will and desires.

The Gigantic was created from Sho's desire to be strong enough to take on Alkanphel.

The Pressure Cannon was fired when Sho desired to strike hard from a distance.

The host didn't have to be told how to use the Mega Smashers, only desire to fire a beam weapon of his own.

The Gigantic turned into a 60 meter tall Giant version just by Sho willing it.

Yes, the UNIT can activate the weaponry in times of need, but the host would have no clue how to utilize it until it was first activated, or until they were told how. Remember, the Unit works by being commanded.

No the unit works by the host will.

No one told Sho how to rip open his chest plates and fire the Smashers.

No one told Sho how to cup his hands and fire the Pressure Cannon.

No one told Sho how to use the vibrational swords and G2 learned it on his own as well.

No one told Sho how to use the Gravity Knuckles or the Gravity Ram.

No one told Sho he could grow 60 meters tall with the Gigantic.

No one told Sho he could turn the Relic into a Gigantic, he just desired the power.

So thank you for your time but this idea remains strictly a fan fic idea as it would never happen in the Manga.

[Tyranthrax]

Gast! The host didn't need to know how to do it only want it to happen.

Wrong. The host had to first be SHOWN the ability, thus giving them the knowledge of HOW to do it. From then on, they could perform the maneuver on a whim, provided they had the energy to do so at the time.

Sho needed the ability to beat his opponent, so the CM said, "Look at what you can do!" All of his abilities were either shown to him by his CM or he was told how by another Guyver. The only example of the second method I can think of is GIII telling him how he could fly.

And when has any of the Guyvers communicated that far?

Never! Well what do you know there is a range limit.

Wrong. Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they can't. There has been NOTHING saying they CAN'T reach that far. Just because someone shows you they can lift up to 5,000 lbs or run 100-MPH doesn't mean that is their limit. That is simply what you were shown.

So until someone says officially that there IS a range limit, as they have ONLY for the Zoalords, then it's possible their range can extend further than shown.

And it is a lot more complicated than just asking the Relic. The Relic has to be able to know where you are first.

The Telepathy ain't going to tell it that!

You're right. It's a good thing they have on-board long-range scanners.

Never mind the Relic wouldn't respond unless the Guyver first was on board to establish a link in the first place.

Unless, as has been given previously for a possibility, a Guyver can first establish a link and then maintain a lesser control even from a distance.

G3 had no control over either the Relic or the Gigantic until Sho gave him control. And G3 still had to bond to the Gigantic to establish that link.

...Jesus Christ. Even if you know you CAN do something, it's a LOT different than knowing HOW to do it.

The same we do, spectrum analysis. It's not magic you know.

With no prior data on an ecological system all spectrum analysis would do is raise questions, not show them the planets composition.

Hyper Sensors and such have all shown to have limited range. Even if the Relic had longer range scanners it still will have to be in line of site and pin point accuracy.

Why is that? The Guyver's Hyper Sensors don't have to have line of sight. They can detect objects THROUGH objects.

Simple physics, it's a lot harder to create a hyper jump point far away from the device creating it than it is creating that point near the device.

While it would be harder to create a same sized jump point farther away, as it needs to create a much smaller jump, that difficulty is reduced. =]

In proportion, the portal required to let a 1-kilometer wide object pass through would have to be over 111,111x larger than the portal required to let an object 3-meters wide pass through.

I know this because if we were looking at a 1-kilometer wide cube it's surface area would be 1,000,000 square meters, compared to the measily 9 square meters of the 3-meter wide cube.

This would mean it would take less energy to form a portal for the 3-meter wide cube even if it were 100,000 miles away.

Yes it would because Relic's don't violate conservation of energy. So the further away an object is the more energy it takes to establish a portal over that distance.

Again, the smaller the portal created the less energy required.

It takes far less energy for the Relic to create just an event horizon, go through, travel through hyper space and then create another even horizon to return to normal space at the destination.

Technically, you're right, as the Relic could fill its energy reserves while passing through HyperSpace. But counting the total energy required to create the right sized portal for itself compared to creating a portal for an object many, many times smaller than itself would require a significantly less amount of energy.

Fact is they are not really teleportation anymore than Star Trek Warp Drive is teleportation. It's just another method of moving by taking a short cut.

You're wrong about that, as the Star Trek Warp Drive doesn't make the vessel enter another dimension as the HyperSpace Jumps do.

It is still based off a Relic, in fact it was grown from the same Relic that became the Gigantic, and Creator technology and despite having the power of up to 12 Zoalords backing it it still can't be used to teleport anyone.

But without possessing the Navigational Spheres it would be without the features a Relic possessing them would. Hence, if they managed to install Navigation Spheres in the Ark it would undoubtedly enhance its functionality.

No, it's hyper jumping.

One of the various available forms of teleportation.

And the fact remains the Cocoon still has to come to the Gigantic. The Gigantic can't be taken to the Cocoon.

No you didn't answer it.

Let me be Clear, I SAID DEACTIVATE. NOT ACTIVATE!!!

The Gigantic is going back to the cocoon but never has it ever been teleported to the Cocoon. The Cocoon had to come and get it.

This compared to the normal Guyver unit which can send itself into hyper space all by itself.

Clearly the Relic technology DID NOT give that ability to the Gigantic.

Something I've just thought of on this is, remember that little thing called the 'Blast Field'? Wouldn't be too good for the Gigantic to teleport into the cocoon anyways. Hence, the cocoon collects and returns to HyperSpace.

First off your the one trying to one up when all you got is a belief. There is nothing to back your theory.

Second the loss of mass would not remove function, as you yourself suggested the function comes from the Relic CM's which the Gigantic still has.

Third the Cocoon spends virtually all its time in Hyper Space where it has limitless energy to draw from. If it could teleport then it would have already but it hasn't.

No, the Gigantic has a portion of the Navigation Spheres. ONE, ring. Not both of them in their entirety. Thus, loss of function.

Then you must be pretty dense because Agito saw Sho doing it so he clearly knew it was possible.

You're the one limited to thinking knowing you can and knowing how are the same thing.

Hello, telepathy!!!

It has nothing with knowing how, Agito already knew how. He just didn't have access until it was given to him.

No, he knew he COULD, he didn't know HOW.

Many things have stated this, you just choose to ignore them.

Fact is the CM wouldn't need to be extended unless it needed high bandwidth to establish a signal and second the also means that this signal goes through normal space, which means range limit!!!

Unless that is the only way they know how. Just because we have been shown ONE way they do it, does not mean there aren't others.

Even for the Gigantic the CM has to extend before the Gigantic can go on the Guyver.

This is an entirely different matter. On this topic the CM is reaching out so it can connect with the Gigantic ring and function with it. It isn't extending in the way it was shown when Sho was piloting the Relic. Please, try to stay on topic.

Then let's take the Arizona Relic for example.

It may have been fossilized but the CM's where still functional. In fact that is where Chronos got most of the knowledge on how to Zoaform, etc from.

And we've seen Relic CM's fly as the ones that Became the Gigantic floated to G1's CM and created a protective field around him even as they generated the Cocoon from the remains of the Relic.

Yet Agito could not command the Arizona Relic CM's to do anything.

As he didn't know how.

And before you suggest they had no power, CM's have their own power.

When G1 regenerated from nothing but the CM it was the CM providing the power for the regeneration.

Yeah, I know that. I'm not stupid.

You're arguing with me and you haven't even read the whole Manga?

Just for your information I've read the entire Manga and gone over every single translations and those made for the Guyver Visual Data File.

Oh my gee, you're so superior! ;-;

But to Clarify Here's the exact chain of events...

1) Alkanphel redirected the three Smasher beams from G1 and G3 (G3 only fired one because he had lost one arm so couldn't rip open the other chest plate) and the blast hit them and smashed them into the Relic.

2) The Relic starts to disintegrate and G1 also starts to disintegrate until just his CM is left.

3) The Relic CM's float, turn away from each other and then back into each other as they merge into one

4) G1's CM is drawn to the Relic merged CM and a protective field is thrown up as the Relic CM's emit a light (same light they shined on G1 when he first linked up and started piloting the Relic)

5) Fragments of the Relic organism started to be drawn towards them and formed the Cocoon. G3 was also similar cocooned.

6) G3 wakes up inside the protective cocoon, rips his way out and finds that his armor has mostly regenerated. He sees the Gigantic Cocoon but Chronos shows up and takes it.

Since G1's CM was within the Control CM's light field, just like he was when he first piloted the Relic, means his CM was giving the Relic CM's commands.

And the fact this happened before anyone was teleported also shows this.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT Tetsuro and the others were also sent to safety and it was a place that Sho had felt was safe, WHICH MEANS HE COMMANDED THE RELIC TO DO IT!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL JTDCISTGATHMMIALMMFAO!

So yeah, like, months later, after Guyver III wakes up, then Tetsuro and the others are teleported to safety. And no, Sho can't command the Relic to do ****, unless he has a brain to first command his own Control Medallion. His commands must have come BEFORE his brain was utterly destroyed, hence, he gave his command before the Relic's Navigation Spheres ever merged. =] At least, that is, according to the information you just provided.

Range varies depending on mass and speed. Just to get out of the main atmosphere you have to go over 50 miles up. But it would be even further if you need it to stay in a steady position.

Never mind the complexity of opening a hyper jump point while traveling at high speed over a planet that is spinning just over 1000 mph and pin point a Guyver that may itself be moving up to 300 MPH.

If they can scan something from the far reaches of space it shouldn't be too hard to lock onto its target when orbiting the planet in question.

Of course, with the amplifier, hasn't Balkus said he could control EVERY ZOANOID IN THE WORLD? And, isn't Earth's diameter close to 8 THOUSAND miles?

The Amplifier can boost a single Zoalord's telepathy to the power of ALL TWELVE COMBINED.

Mind you the Guyver doesn't even have a Zoalord's level of telepathy and can't control any zoanoids. So would have even less range.

The Guyver being unable to control a Zoanoid wouldn't show them having less telepathic range, because the Zoanoids are specifically made to obey the Zoalords.

For example, when G1 was facing his dad as Enzyme 2 G3 had no idea he was in danger until he felt his death cry. And he was only at most a few miles away.

Then again, without GI sayin', "Uh, hey.. I'm kinda havin' problems over here." he's not exactly going to know what's going on.

Here's the problem in your logic, the Relic is a living ship.

The link is needed for control over the ship, allowing the Guyver to control the ship like an extension of their own body but without that link they only have the most basic of controls. Like opening a door or turning on the lights like level control.

Once again, we are not suggesting the Guyver cut its link with the Relic, but first establish it and maintain it, even if it was with some drop in control.

Nothing like the Control you would need to command the Relic to teleport someone. For that to happen the Relic has to be shown what to do.

We actually don't know how much control he'd need to do that. Whenever he was wanting everyone to be safe and for him to have the power to defeat Alkanphel his CM was not extended, showing the possibility to control the Relic without the extended CM.

Sho described how he was controlling the Relic, he had to visualize what he wanted and then will it to happen.

If all he has is voice telepathy communication then he can't command it to do anything complex.

And where is it that you read this? I'm sure everyone else here would like to be made privy to this 'official' information stating the previous is true and not just someone's GUESS.

Like while he was on top of the Relic with G3, he never commanded the Relic to do anything like evassive maneuvers or just fly away or even raise shields, which the Relic had.

So they just stood there and tried to take Alkanphel out with their mega smashers.

Do you think something that large could perform complex 'evasive maneuvers'? Come on, be serious. As for giving any command, being focused on the battle at hand could very well prevent him from commanding the Relic. In the confusion of the attacks from the Holy Warriors could further keep him from doing so, and then when told by Agito to attack Alkanphel, and not to raise the shielding or make it fly away, it's logical to think he'd do as told.

You're missing the point, the Relic can't do anything complex unless it has a strong link to the Guyver.

Once again, there has been NO OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating that to be true. You are merely making assumptions because it hasn't been done before. Refrain from confusing your beliefs for non-existent OFFICIAL information please.

Even Zoalords have basic telepathic communication with a Relic. But they can't command it to do anything. So you need more than just telepathy, you need a command link to the Relic.

No, you apparently need a Control Medallion to effectively communicate with the Relic. Good thing Guyver have them then.

Over a distance at best the Guyver might be able to command the Relic to come to him but that's it.

If you want the Relic to jump through hoops and just up and teleport someone then there has to be someone in control of the Relic to give it the complex command needed.

Again, your assumption.

Hell, even Star Trek had it that someone had to be at the controls of the transporter.

Good for Star Trek; the topic is Guyver. Please stay on topic.

By definition REAL TELEPORTATION would be "A hypothetical method of transportation in which matter or information is dematerialized, usually instantaneously, at one point and recreated at another."

Paranormal transportation of an object from one location to another, even through solid objects.

is the strange, unusual or paranormal movement of an object to another place. See also: apport, & deport.

a hypothetical mode of instantaneous transportation; matter is dematerialized at one place and recreated at another

Teleportation, or teletransportation, is the process of moving objects from one place to another more or less instantaneously, without using conventional transportation.

Hence, according to three of these definitions a HyperSpace Jump can be considered a form of teleportation.

Never mind the FACT that each method has its own method and limitations.

If you are going to use hyper space to teleport then you bloody better think what the limitations would be before you start spouting what could be possible or not.

To create a Hyper Space jump point requires a fairly massive amount of power, add the fact this power has to be properly focused and the impossibility of doing this over a long distance makes this discussion mute.

Again, there is NO OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating the Relic isn't capable of doing so. If you do have OFFICIAL information on the subject, please quite withholding it from the rest of us. If no such OFFICIAL information exist, discontinue from making statements that appear to be factual, when they are, in FACT, not.

To put it into perspective this would be like having a Star Trek Starship in orbit and have it use it's warp drive to send someone on the planet into warp while the ship is in orbit.

That would be quite different actually, as one difference between warp drive and hyperspace is that unlike hyperspace, the ship does not enter a different universe or a different dimension, it merely creates a small "bubble" of normal space time. Ships in warp can interact with objects in normal space.

They are two different methods of transportation.

The Unit has repeatedly shown it will respond to the host will and desires.

The Gigantic was created from Sho's desire to be strong enough to take on Alkanphel.

The Pressure Cannon was fired when Sho desired to strike hard from a distance.

The host didn't have to be told how to use the Mega Smashers, only desire to fire a beam weapon of his own.

And where does it show Sho thinking 'I wish I could fire a beam weapon of my own'? No where, that's where. Sho needed to be able to beat/protect himself from Vamore's lasers. The Unit, having already scanned them previous, activated it's own weapon.

The Gigantic turned into a 60 meter tall Giant version just by Sho willing it.

This ONE, I can give you, partially. Though Sho did say he was going to show them the Gigantic's true power, he did not say "Now I'm going to grow into a 60-meter tall Guyver so I can battle Khan." Even then the CM could have sent the required information to his, as it did when initially activating all of his weapon systems.

No the unit works by the host will.

Are you so dense as to not realize being commanded by the host is following the host's will?

No one told Sho how to rip open his chest plates and fire the Smashers.

You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Mega-Smasher was activated. It was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he fired it.

No one told Sho how to cup his hands and fire the Pressure Cannon.

You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Pressure Cannon was activated. It was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he fired it.

No one told Sho how to use the Gravity Knuckles or the Gravity Ram.

You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Gravity Knuckles/Ram were activated and was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he utilized them.

No one told Sho he could grow 60 meters tall with the Gigantic.

On this one I'm not 100% certain the CM initially contacted his mind and sent the information showing him how to initiate the transformation, but with the previous examples it is highly likely.

No one told Sho he could turn the Relic into a Gigantic, he just desired the power.

You're right, but the CM, doing its best to make his desire a reality, called forth the Navigation Spheres to itself and thus began the process of the Gigantic's creation.

So thank you for your time but this idea remains strictly a fan fic idea as it would never happen in the Manga.

Well thank YOU for your OPINION. You might note that when Guyver I was atop the Relic his CM wasn't extended. Nor did it extend at any point after his and GIII's MS beams were turned back on them, yet his CM still did instruct the Relic's Navigation Spheres. It goes to show the Guyver is capable of maintaining a link with the Relic, even without their CM extended and even if at a distance from the Navigation Spheres.

So until you have OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating limitations on what the Guyver can do instead of making assumptions based on what they have done previous, please refrain from adding anymore unneeded posts.

Ultimately, this all comes down to a matter of opinion between Shenzon, McAvoy and I who aren't so limited in thought by thinking what has been shown previous is ONLY what the Guyver can do. Hypothetically, since what has been shown HAS NOT been stated OFFICIALLY to be their limitations, we assume they could do more, such as commanding an orbiting Relic that they have maintained a link with. You just assume that what has been shown to you is their limitation, which shows you are underestimating their capabilities.

So while you may like to limit then what the Guyver can do, we would like to reveal the probability that maybe they can do more than previously shown.

So again, thank you and have a nice day.

[*zeo]

Wrong. The host had to first be SHOWN the ability, thus giving them the knowledge of HOW to do it.

Wrong, Sho was never shown how to fire the Mega Smashers, and he was never shown how to use the Gravity Ram attack.

The Guyver responds to the will and desires of its host. It's as simple as that.

The only thing the host had to learn to use was the Hyper Sensors.

All others was only discovering that he could do those things. But how to do them was something he only had to will or desire to activate.

Sho needed the ability to beat his opponent, so the CM said, "Look at what you can do!" All of his abilities were either shown to him by his CM or he was told how by another Guyver. The only example of the second method I can think of is GIII telling him how he could fly.

Hello, the CM doesn't talk. It doesn't tell Sho a damn thing.

The CM is integrated with the host brain, it uses the host brain to decide what to do.

Like in the anime, Sho wanted to protect Tetsuro so the unit protected Tetsuro.

The CM is basically part of the host brain, even when the host is unconscious the CM is accessing the host brain for commands.

When G1 was fighting Powered Zerebubuth in the new anime it clearly showed the CM accessing his brain during the battle.

So the CM always responds to the host will.

Wrong. Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they can't. There has been NOTHING saying they CAN'T reach that far.

Hello, if they try and it doesn't work then it means they can't.

Sorry but you're just in denial.

So until someone says officially that there IS a range limit, as they have ONLY for the Zoalords, then it's possible their range can extend further than shown.

The Guyvers have never communicated over a long range, even when Agito was ripping the Gigantic off of Sho. Sho cursed him but all Agito knew was the fact the Gigantic was low on power and that Sho had tried to resist.

You're right. It's a good thing they have on-board long-range scanners.

Which are useless without a pilot to tell the Relic what to do.

Unless, as has been given previously for a possibility, a Guyver can first establish a link and then maintain a lesser control even from a distance.

Do you have a single thing to back up your theory?

No, then do you have the slightest clue how the link works?

No, then how the hell can you make this claim?

...Jesus Christ. Even if you know you CAN do something, it's a LOT different than knowing HOW to do it.

Not for the Guyver, it's living technology. All of it was designed to respond to the host will and desire.

Like the flying bit, all Agito really had to do was tell Sho he could do it and which part of the unit to focus on and the next G1 was flying like an expert.

And you better not think for a second that Agito wasn't trying since the moment he learned about the Gigantic.

With no prior data on an ecological system all spectrum analysis would do is raise questions, not show them the planets composition.

Hello, there was no ecology when the Creators came to Earth, it was primordial ooze, just the building blocks of life.

And what are you talking about no prior data, the Creators had explored many life sustaining worlds.

That's how they got the Guyver Organism in the first place. The Earth was not the first planet they had gone to and experimented on.

Never mind what ever world(s) the Creators themselves came from.

And showing a planet's composition is exactly what spectrum analysis can show.

Why is that? The Guyver's Hyper Sensors don't have to have line of sight. They can detect objects THROUGH objects.

Yes but like I said they have a RANGE LIMIT. Not even the Gigantic can scan miles around itself.

When G1 broke into the Chronos building with Bio-Freezer, Bio-Freezer had to tell him where to break in since where they started to dig underground was too far away for G1 to scan.

So just like normal RADAR the Guyver Hyper Sense has it's limits.

Chronos even managed to create a Zoanoid that could cloak itself from the Hyper Sensors. G1 only realized something was there when the zoanoid was virtually on top of him and even then he lashed out of suspicion rather than certainty.

And despite scanning the building G1 was still surprised by a group of Enzyme III's.

So there are definite limits to the Hyper Sensors.

While it would be harder to create a same sized jump point farther away, as it needs to create a much smaller jump, that difficulty is reduced. =]

Ever tried to do the math on that wise guy?

The size of the portal has to cover both ends of the hyper jump for this so called teleport so you're extending an energy field over hundreds of miles.

Never mind the difficulty of focusing that power to produce the hyper jump points over that distance.

The energy requirements grow exponentially over distance like that and all the while it still has to be pin point accurate so as to not destroy the Guyver in the process.

Glad you thought it through. . .

In proportion, the portal required to let a 1-kilometer wide object pass through would have to be over 111,111x larger than the portal required to let an object 3-meters wide pass through.

I know this because if we were looking at a 1-kilometer wide cube it's surface area would be 1,000,000 square meters, compared to the measily 9 square meters of the 3-meter wide cube.

And the surface area of over 200 miles is? Let alone 100,000 miles?

Sorry but it's a lot easier to send stuff than it is to bring it to you.

Technically, you're right, as the Relic could fill its energy reserves while passing through HyperSpace. But counting the total energy required to create the right sized portal for itself compared to creating a portal for an object many, many times smaller than itself would require a significantly less amount of energy.

Not when you take into account the distance the energy field has to be extended over.

You're wrong about that, as the Star Trek Warp Drive doesn't make the vessel enter another dimension as the HyperSpace Jumps do.

Actually it can, warp bubbles can even create pocket realities as was shown a few times on STTNG. And the principle is the same as the Hyper Space jump. The only difference is you can still see the normal universe but traveling at warp means you enter subspace.

In fact Warp Travel isn't possible unless you are in a part of space that shares with subspace.

Besides haven't you heard of Transwarp Conduits?

But without possessing the Navigational Spheres it would be without the features a Relic possessing them would. Hence, if they managed to install Navigation Spheres in the Ark it would undoubtedly enhance its functionality.

Possibly but the fact is the Ark was designed by the Creators so would have all the technology they possessed short of the Relic CM's.

It was in fact designed as a generational war ship, unlike the Relics which were science ships, so if it was possible they would have given it that ability.

One of the various available forms of teleportation.

Again, not true teleporation. You aren't dematerializing and rematerializing somewhere else. You are traveling from point A to point B just as you are now.

Just like the difference between walking through a maze versus flying over it to your distination. It's just a short cut but you are still traveling as you would normally.

Just like Warp Drive is a short cut, etc.

You're using the word teleport way too loosely and in a debate that requires you to be precise because we are debating the feasability of this idea.

Something I've just thought of on this is, remember that little thing called the 'Blast Field'? Wouldn't be too good for the Gigantic to teleport into the cocoon anyways. Hence, the cocoon collects and returns to HyperSpace.

Again you're not paying attention, the blast field only shows up during activation. When the Guyver deactivates there is no blast field.

The Blast Field is a result of something coming into normal space from Hyper Space.

So if the Cocoon called the Gigantic back to it then it would not produce a blast field either.

No, the Gigantic has a portion of the Navigation Spheres. ONE, ring. Not both of them in their entirety. Thus, loss of function.

Wrong, what do you think is inside the Cocoon?

And as long as the CM's are in proximity they can work off each other.

Not to mention the Gigantic is pretty small when it is deactivated so using your own argument it would take very little to pull it to the Cocoon.

No, he knew he COULD, he didn't know HOW.

There was never a how, there is no manual to the Gigantic. All it's abilities are activated by the will and desire of the host. G3 simply had no access until he was given a chance to bond to the Gigantic to establish the link.

Unless that is the only way they know how. Just because we have been shown ONE way they do it, does not mean there aren't others.

Yes it does when it shows the light of the CM is what is linking the Unit to the Relic CM.

And this was all done automatically so that is how the Creators designed it.

This is an entirely different matter. On this topic the CM is reaching out so it can connect with the Gigantic ring and function with it. It isn't extending in the way it was shown when Sho was piloting the Relic. Please, try to stay on topic.

I am on topic, the Gigantic is still the Relic.

The back thrusters, the power amps, the shield, are all from the Relic.

And the CM did the same thing inside the Relic Control Room.

Oh my gee, you're so superior! ;-;

Simple fact is you are arguing without knowing all the facts and I am arguing with all the facts.

It has nothing to do with who is superior. The simple fact is you are arguing without knowing all the facts first and assuming you're right versus someone who does know everything that has happened in the Manga.

So yeah, like, months later, after Guyver III wakes up, then Tetsuro and the others are teleported to safety. And no, Sho can't command the Relic to do ****, unless he has a brain to first command his own Control Medallion. His commands must have come BEFORE his brain was utterly destroyed, hence, he gave his command before the Relic's Navigation Spheres ever merged. =] At least, that is, according to the information you just provided.

No wise guy his commands came after, nothing happened until the Relic CM's brought his CM within their command linking field (the same field you see G1 engulfed in when he was piloting the Relic).

The CM keeps a record of all his thoughts, that's how the Guyver can regenerate completely and restore even the host mind down to the last memory.

His last thought before his body disintegrated was for becoming stronger and protecting his friends. So when the Relic CM's interfaced with his CM they carried out that last command.

But this was done while right by the Relic CM's and within the field of light they use to link with the piloting Guyver.

If they can scan something from the far reaches of space it shouldn't be too hard to lock onto its target when orbiting the planet in question.

Scanning doesn't translate into pin point accuracy automatically.

And like I said before the scanners don't have unlimited range.

Even Star Trek requires communicators, transponders, etc methods for piinpointing someone before they can transport them. And ship to ship transportation is done a lot closer than ship to planet.

Never mind the Guyver would also have to know where the Relic is to command it properly anyway.

The Guyver being unable to control a Zoanoid wouldn't show them having less telepathic range, because the Zoanoids are specifically made to obey the Zoalords.

Actually a Zoalord can control anybody, zoanoids are just easier because they are hardwired to obey.

Balcus was using the Amplifier because he wanted to control the Libertus who are lost units, which basically means their brains are just like a humans.

So he was amplifying his telepathy to the point he could control both humans and lost numbers as well as regular zoanoids.

Then again, without GI sayin', "Uh, hey.. I'm kinda havin' problems over here." he's not exactly going to know what's going on.

If the telepathy was as advance as you are trying to suggest then it would have.

Remember Sho didn't have his brain ripped out instantly, he had time to scream.

Never mind when Sho was facing the first Enzyme he was most definitely trying to call for G3's help but back then he didn't know he was Agito and despite communicating with him before he had no idea where he was even though Agito was nearby watching the battle.

Or even the live action movie, the Relic was calling out to Sean but he didn't know where to look until he saw that news program with the cave drawings. And even when he got close he didn't get anything concrete until he went into the Relic and came face to face with the Relic CM.

Really, the closest possible example of what you are talking about is when the Gigantic was first activated.

Mizuki called for Sho's help and the Gigantic Cocoon came to her from halfway around the planet. But for that example it was obviously homing in on her and even then it flew part of the way.

Similarly with Alkanphel, when Imakirum was defeated by GG3 he sensed it and came looking for him but he still had to split the ocean open to find Imakirum.

Once again, we are not suggesting the Guyver cut its link with the Relic, but first establish it and maintain it, even if it was with some drop in control.

It can't maintain it over distances. The light/energy from the CM needs to be able to reach the other CM's for any advance control.

We actually don't know how much control he'd need to do that. Whenever he was wanting everyone to be safe and for him to have the power to defeat Alkanphel his CM was not extended, showing the possibility to control the Relic without the extended CM.

His CM was fully exposed and was right next to the Relic CM's. Ergo it was done at Zero range.

And where is it that you read this? I'm sure everyone else here would like to be made privy to this 'official' information stating the previous is true and not just someone's GUESS.

I read it from the translated Manga, they are available you know.

Do you think something that large could perform complex 'evasive maneuvers'? Come on, be serious.

Oh, and you have no problems with Starships making evasive maneuvers?

Size only matter if the ship doesn't have the power to move quickly but the Relic can move quickly, it's a space ship!!!

The Gigantic's back thrusters are based on the same propulsion system the Relic uses.

And that still doesn't change the fact the Relic has shields and just like the Gigantic it could hyper jump.

As for giving any command, being focused on the battle at hand could very well prevent him from commanding the Relic. In the confusion of the attacks from the Holy Warriors could further keep him from doing so, and then when told by Agito to attack Alkanphel, and not to raise the shielding or make it fly away, it's logical to think he'd do as told.

Problem is that goes against your argument for saying he could just tell the Relic to beam him aboard.

Never mind that if that was even possible don't you think he would have tried to do that to save Murikami.

While linked to the Ship it was like an extension of his body. He was aware of all of it.

His control was such that he even tried to use the hull of the Relic to kill Guyot but Guyot threatend Murikami so Sho backed off.

And the shield was raised when the Relic smashed it's way through the mountain base so Sho was definitely aware of it.

And both G1 and G3 had time to think, they saw the Mega Smashers being redirected and they weren't instantly vaporized. Yet nothing happened until the Relic CM's came to G1's CM.

Once again, there has been NO OFFICIAL INFORMATION stating that to be true. You are merely making assumptions because it hasn't been done before. Refrain from confusing your beliefs for non-existent OFFICIAL information please.

Hello, you're the one who hasn't read the whole series.

You're the one trying to impose your opinion over all examples showing otherwise.

So please refrain from stating nothing official when you don't have all the facts.

No, you apparently need a Control Medallion to effectively communicate with the Relic. Good thing Guyver have them then.

Actually zoalords can communicate just fine with the Relic CM.

That's how they got all their Creator based technology, they accessed the Relic CM for it.

But yeah they need a CM to command the Relic. That is why it's called a CONTROL MEDAL.

It's just too bad the CM's have to be in range of each other to establish a control link.

Good for Star Trek; the topic is Guyver. Please stay on topic.

Oh I'm on topic, I'm just trying to give you examples you might actually be familiar with since you haven't read the Manga.

Paranormal transportation of an object from one location to another, even through solid objects.

Still requires dematerialization and rematerialization.

Hence, according to three of these definitions a HyperSpace Jump can be considered a form of teleportation.

Only if you had no idea what a hyper space jump was. It's only paranormal if it's unexplained.

And quantum teleporation is the duplication of an object at a different location with the original either still existing or destroyed. So doesn't fit that.

And it fails the dematerializing and rematerializing part. Objects hyper jumped aren't turned into energy and back again. They simply move just like they normally would.

So the correct interpretation would be that it appears to be teleported but is actually just traveling in a different manner from normal.

That would be quite different actually, as one difference between warp drive and hyperspace is that unlike hyperspace, the ship does not enter a different universe or a different dimension, it merely creates a small "bubble" of normal space time. Ships in warp can interact with objects in normal space.

They are two different methods of transportation.

Shows how much you know, entering warp means entering a layer of subspace. A ship in warp is no longer in normal space.

This is why Phasers are pretty much useless at warp and they have to use torpedoes.

The torpedoes themselves have their own warp coils.

So sorry, again you are wrong. It should have been really obvious too since you can't travel faster than light through normal space.

And where does it show Sho thinking 'I wish I could fire a beam weapon of my own'? No where, that's where.

It's the part he's staring at Vamore's laser pods and thinking how he could counter them.

Sho needed to be able to beat/protect himself from Vamore's lasers. The Unit, having already scanned them previous, activated it's own weapon.

It could have just lasered the Vamore, it's a low level zoanoids, the head beam could have taken it out easily.

But instead it went for overkill. So no, it was definitely the host will/desire that caused that to happen.

Sho wanted maximum destructive firepower and he got it.

Even then the CM could have sent the required information to his, as it did when initially activating all of his weapon systems.

At no time during the entire series has the CM ever told Sho anything.

Like when the head beam was first fired in the anime, Sho asked what had happened. He didn't know, he just instinctive used it.

For the Guyver host it's just like getting super powers. You may not know you can jump 100 feet into the air but as soon as you try it works.

The same with all the other weapons and abilities.

A Guyver feels what they are capable of, the unit never just tells them.

Are you so dense as to not realize being commanded by the host is following the host's will?

No, you are the one being dense by confusing will with knowing how something needs to be done.

You can command a robot to do something but that doesn't mean you know how to do that something yourself, only how to give the command to do it.

You're right, but the CM did contact his mind and send the information showing him how the Mega-Smasher was activated. It was even nice enough to do it for him the first time he fired it.

It never showed him, he just felt it and went through the motions.

The CM is linked not only with his brain but also his nervous sytem.

This is no different than how we walk.

Our brain isn't controlling every aspect of the process of walking. The signals for walking actually come from nerve clusters in our spine.

Our brain just tells our body where to go.

It's the same things with the Guyver. The CM already knows what it is capable of. After all it was the CM that designed the Guyver.

The host just has to guide it and make decisions for it.

Remember the human brain doesn't have the built in ability to control weapon systems. So the only control the host can use is their will and imagination which does not require the host to know how everything works.

It's like you pulling the trigger of a gun, you don't need to know how the gun works, just point and pull the trigger.

There is a difference.

You're right, but the CM, doing its best to make his desire a reality, called forth the Navigation Spheres to itself and thus began the process of the Gigantic's creation.

And why would the CM need to call the Relic CM's if it could command it over a distance?

Never mind the Relic CM's were what were doing all the work.

Ultimately, this all comes down to a matter of opinion between Shenzon, McAvoy and I who aren't so limited in thought by thinking what has been shown previous is ONLY what the Guyver can do.

Actually just you, Shenzon knows he doesn't know everything about the Manga which is why he asked the question.

And McAvoy knows a lot more than you do but he hasn't read all of the Manga.

Which is why I've been only really been arguing with you.

While I have read the entire manga series up to the latest issue and have been debating every aspect of the series for over a decade.

Hypothetically, since what has been shown HAS NOT been stated OFFICIALLY to be their limitations, we assume they could do more

No, you can't. And there is a pattern to what has OFFICIALLY bean shown. Ignoring that and assuming something is possible is like saying something like...

If a man can barely lift his own weight then you can assume he can lift twice his weight. When that makes no sense.

such as commanding an orbiting Relic that they have maintained a link with. You just assume that what has been shown to you is their limitation, which shows you are underestimating their capabilities.

No it shows I accept what is being shown and I'm not trying to dream up an outlandish scenario and argue for it to be possible just because I like that possibility.

I follow things to their logical conclusion. I think through every possibility and compare every possible result with the pattern of evidense shown in the Manga.

If they don't match up then I will flat out tell you that just like I have here.

So while you may like to limit then what the Guyver can do, we would like to reveal the probability that maybe they can do more than previously shown.

That's the problem, I'm not arguing for what I like.

Have you read the Warrior Guyver Fan Fiction?

I'm the one who makes the Data Files and I'm the one who gave Dreadnought all his abilities.

So there is a big difference from what I like versus what is possible in the Manga.

So it's not just my opinion, no matter how many times you say that it doesn't change the fact everything I have stated is either based on the official source or taken directly from it.

And I have given you example after example, which should not only be considered individually but as a whole since together they show a pattern and thus tell us what is possible and what is not.

Like even though you noted G1 was on top of the Relic when it was hit!

But you did not note he was blasted into the Relic and that his CM was within the control sphere of the Relic CM's and his body had already been destroyed.

So his CM was already exposed and in direct link with the Relic CM's.

He wasn't controlling the Relic when he was standing on top of it.

The Relic did nothing but float there until it was destroyed.

And here's one more thing for you to consider, if the Relics could teleport then why didn't the Creators just teleport Guyver Zero into the sun or something similar?

Back then the Relics were clearly at full power since they all pretty much left in a hurry after the Guyver Zero incident.

And it wasn't like they didn't have other units to replace his with.

Clearly the Creators would have known about it if their ships could do something like that don't you think?

But instead they slap a unit remover on Alkanphel and send him in instead.

So clearly there are limitations to what the Relics can do.

[Tyranthrax]

To bring forth the end to this discussion requires a drastically smaller post from me, revealing how he confuses his own assumptions with factual Guyver information.

Hello, if they try and it doesn't work then it means they can't.

Sorry but you're just in denial.

And that is exactly it. They HAVEN'T tried. Thus, having not tried, therefore having never failed to do so, there is NO proof saying it isn't possible.

Yes it does when it shows the light of the CM is what is linking the Unit to the Relic CM.

And this was all done automatically so that is how the Creators designed it.

Refer to strong/fast man. If he can lift 10,000 lbs but only shows you him lifting 5,000 lbs doesn't mean he can then ONLY lift up to 5,000 lbs. The first thing revealed is not always the peak of ability. It is ONLY the peak if something official states it to be so, and nothing has stated the Guyver MUST be in proximity to the Navigation Spheres to give them commands. They have simply been shown doing so.

Simple fact is you are arguing without knowing all the facts and I am arguing with all the facts.

And despite you "knowing all the facts" you have continued to make ASSUMPTIONS and state them to be fact, when they are in FACT, your opinion.

Don't take things for what they seem at first glance; that's called 'underestimation'. When something has not been performed does not mean it isn't possible. Strong/fast man.

It can't maintain it over distances. The light/energy from the CM needs to be able to reach the other CM's for any advance control.

This is what you ASSUME, only because it hasn't been shown. Strong/fast man.

I read it from the translated Manga, they are available you know.

No, you didn't, because NOTHING in the Manga has stated: "If all he has is voice telepathy communication then he can't command it to do anything complex." Strong/fast man.

No, you can't. And there is a pattern to what has OFFICIALLY bean shown. Ignoring that and assuming something is possible is like saying something like...

If a man can barely lift his own weight then you can assume he can lift twice his weight. When that makes no sense.

If you KNOW the man is performing at his peak, then there are no assumptions to be had. Assumptions are only made when you don't have factual information.

Now, the Guyver wasn't shown as being "barely" able to command the Relic. He seemed to do so with ease. Thus, by your own statement, it could be possible for him to control it from a distance. Strong/fast man.

I follow things to their logical conclusion. I think through every possibility and compare every possible result with the pattern of evidense shown in the Manga.

And YET, there has been NO evidence saying the Guyver CAN'T control it from a distance. It merely hasn't been shown doing so. Strong/fast man.

And I have given you example after example, which should not only be considered individually but as a whole since together they show a pattern and thus tell us what is possible and what is not.

Your "examples" were but your assumptions based upon what you'd seen. Based on what I've seen, this being nothing saying they can't control it from a distance, my assumption is that it COULD be POSSIBLE.

This shows the difference between us Zeo. You're seem to be quick to assume what you're shown is all that's possible, while I'm not prone to underestimating things. Like strong/fast man.

And so this "debate" comes to its end, with Zeo still having shown no OFFICIAL PROOF stating a Guyver CAN'T control a Relic from a distance; he's given only the assumptions he made based upon what he has seen. Don't forget strong/fast man though.

The reason I cut out a large portion of Zeo's post is because it was irrelevant to the topic at hand, talking about scanning range or forms of transportation and teleportation instead of a Guyver's ability to control a Relic from a distance.

So Shenzon, to answer your question; it IS a POSSIBILITY until PROVEN otherwise.

Oh yeah, and; strong/fast man.

Edit: I removed various portions of my post as I actually found them to be distasteful and quite rude. This is not something I wish to appear as I actually greatly respect you Zeo for the work you have put forth into both helping others better understand the Guyver and for your contributions to warriorguyver.com So in all I wish there to be no hard feelings between the two of us.

[Shenzon]

Hahaha...Thanks a lot Tyranthrax and Zeo1234, you both have answered my questions. I see both your points on this subject, though you both come from different views.

[McAvoy]

Hey Tyranthrax did you know that the Gigantic Guyver really has the strength to lift millions of tons? Don't believe me? Well, I am assuming that because it hasn't been shown yet, if it will ever be shown.

You're blaming zeo on assuming too much and you are guilty of that as well. Difference is that he may assume as much based on what has been shown already while you are assuming based on what you think may happen.

Hell, we can all assume that the Gigantic Guyver can make extremely powerful attacks like Alkanphel did while saving Earth since that it was made to do by Guyver 1's will. But has that been shown? No, it's just an assumption.

[Tyranthrax]

Hey McAvoy, if the Guyver can lift the estimated 40-tons, the Gigantic is zeo's estimated 5x stronger, and someone said its size increase is like 8,000x, then basing his power off of the added mass he could, in theory lift 1,600,000-tons. Of course, that's only if we went with a direct size-to-strength translation.

But no, I was accusing zeo of underestimating the Guyver, based upon inconclusive results in the manga. The Guyver may not be able to control a Relic from hundreds of miles away but manipulating it from range is still a viable possibility, as based upon zeo's own debate as long as the Guyver wasn't straining to control the Relic, he should be able to do so from a distance.

So you see, the reason I'm so resolute in sticking with this theory is because it both hasn't been shown impossible and zeo himself gave information to strengthen my resolve.

Overall, try to look deeper than the mere face value of the things around you. If you do anything, you should overestimate so as to not be found lacking.

[*zeo]

The problem is the results are conclusive Tyranthrax.

And there is nothing quick about my conclusions, I've examined every detail of the Manga and I've been debating the subject for over decade.

Even this topic has come up before.

We are in fact shown how it works but you want to assume it can do things far beyond what we are shown.

You aren't really asking a reasonable possibility when you are asking that something far beyond what is shown should be possible.

I wouldn't be disagreeing with you if that was the case.

I've not only been debating the Guyver for over a decade, I've been debating science and technology for over two decades.

The fact is the Relic, in order to be controlled, has to establish a link.

It does this by the light/energy that all CM's are seen emitting.

Even the Rogue Clone Monster responded to that light when it ran away from G1 when it saw that light.

But this light doesn't travel hundreds of miles. The Guyver doesn't control the Relic by simple telepathy, it's a full neuro link established through the CM.

And we've seen the Relic use it's scanners when Sho used the Relic to see around the mountain and saw everything around them. But he didn't see for hundreds of miles. He only saw the area around the mountain base.

Which is impressive by itself since that is clearly further than the Guyver Hyper Sensors could reach but also shows there is still limitation.

If the link was purely telepathic then I wouldn't be arguing with you but it's not.

And anything that requires a pilot to use the ship as an extension of his body requires a lot of bandwidth which is simply impossible to maintain over hundreds of miles.

The CM light shows that it uses the EM spectrum to establish the link and science already shows the limitations of EM spectrum methods of communication.

Telepresense would require virtually the entire spectrum.

The further away an object is the more energy you need but also lag time increases with distance.

If the Relic ships could just be remote controlled then the Creators wouldn't have left any behind. But they did which shows they could not be remote controlled, they needed to be piloted.

Just to show one of the possibilities you may not have considered.

Even opening the Relic was shown done by the light of the CM glowing.

Never mind the fact that commanding the Relic to teleport something is CONTROLLING IT!!!

The Relic doesn't think for itself!

It's not just simple manipulation or like making a phone call and asking it to do something.

So you're not just overestimating Tyranthrax, you're asking that we ignore physics and logical reasoning.

You already made the erroneous assumption that I'm arguing for something I like when anyone who has read the Warrior Guyver fan fiction would tell you that you are clearly wrong on that regard.

I use teleporting like crazy in the fan fiction. Really you blew my mind with that one.

So you assumed bias where there is none.

I'm arguing for what is facts and what is reasonable given the facts.

Just because something hasn't been spelled out doesn't mean you can't figure out what is possible given what has been shown.

And you've already admitted you haven't read or even seen the entire manga. Yet you want to argue like you're an expert on the subject and even tried to tell me what I have and have not read.

Though you have edited part of your statements the gist of your argument is still trying to say nothing conflicts with your theory when there are in fact many things that goes against it.

Yet you are resolute in your belief that this idea should be possible.

For example, going by your own logic, if a Guyver Unit can send itself into hyper space when it deactivated then it should be possible to send the host as well.

But that reasoning is clearly wrong since Guyvers can't hyper jump without a Gigantic.

Even then it is obviously not a precise process. The Gigantic Cocoon fly into the air all the way up to the clouds before it hyper jumped to Mizuki's location. And once it reached her location it didn't appear right behind her, it appeared in midair and then landed behind her.

And I really think if the Gigantic had any real control over hyper jumping that Agito would have used that ability when he attacked Chronos with the Gigantic. But instead he flew away even though he risked being followed.

But never mind logical reasoning, for you to believe the Guyver can control the Relic from any great distance you would have to ignore how the Guyver links with the Relic and assume it can do it by just telepathy.

But if that was the case then the Zoalords would have been able to control the Relic too but they can't.

So it's not just telepathy!!!

The Telepathy would only allow the Guyver to call for the Relic to come to it but it wouldn't let that Guyver command it to do anything complex like teleport.

Even the teleport as you want to call it is something you are completely underestimating in its complexity.

We're talking about manipulating space time and doing so at not only one location but two simultaneously.

Never mind a hyper jump tends to be one way so the portal would have to be opened from the Guyver's position to the Relic's.

Scanning alone happens through the EM spectrum, the fact a zoanoid can cloak from even the Hyper Sensors proves this, and the further away it is the harder it is to be precise, let alone real time.

A Relic in Orbit would also be constantly moving so the jump point location will constantly be shifting.

The Guyver themselves would have to be able to know their location from the Relic to even tell the Relic where to grab them from and where to send them.

Add the requirement for the CM light to be able to reach the Relic. And the Relic to understand what the Guyver wants it to do.

And for the Guyver to have command level access to the Relic...

Just to highlight the basics of what you are asking to be possible.

Really, you don't even want to have someone on board the Relic to properly command the Relic during the whole process.

So come on, if you are going to overestimate at least be reasonable in your overestimation.

[McAvoy]

Hey McAvoy, if the Guyver can lift the estimated 40-tons, the Gigantic is zeo's estimated 5x stronger, and someone said its size increase is like 8,000x, then basing his power off of the added mass he could, in theory lift 1,600,000-tons. Of course, that's only if we went with a direct size-to-strength translation.

But no, I was accusing zeo of underestimating the Guyver, based upon inconclusive results in the manga. The Guyver may not be able to control a Relic from hundreds of miles away but manipulating it from range is still a viable possibility, as based upon zeo's own debate as long as the Guyver wasn't straining to control the Relic, he should be able to do so from a distance.

So you see, the reason I'm so resolute in sticking with this theory is because it both hasn't been shown impossible and zeo himself gave information to strengthen my resolve.

Overall, try to look deeper than the mere face value of the things around you. If you do anything, you should overestimate so as to not be found lacking.

The Giant Gigantic Guyver is only 8,000x as massive than his regular self. That does not translate directly into strength. Trust me, if Giant Gigantic Guyver was 8,000x heavier his body would need to be at least 8,000x stronger to hold his frame. Let alone to give him any additional power to make him stronger.

This brings up a potential problem, sometimes referred to as the 'ant problem'. The name refers to science fiction movies of the 1950s and 1960s in which something - usually radiation - caused insects such as ants to grow to fantastic sizes so that they could then present a suitably scary sight to the heroes and audience. Some of the movies would put great emphasis on how amazingly strong ants are. 'An ant is able to lift seven or eight times its own body weight,' goes the argument, 'so just think how strong this monster must be!'

The problem becomes obvious when we consider the ratio between the structural strength, muscle power and weight of such an animal. If you take any object and scale it up by a factor N whilst keeping the exact same shape and materials, then the surface or cross sectional area of the shape (or of any given element of it) will increase by a factor of N2, whilst the volume will increase by a factor of N3. The weight of the object rises in direct proportion to its volume while the structural strength at a given point rises roughly in proportion to the cross sectional area at that point. For a living thing the muscle power also rises roughly in proportion to the cross sectional area, which is why Arnold Schwartzenegger is such a tough guy with all those bulging muscles.

If we want to increase the size of our ant from one millimetre to ten metres we must scale it up by a factor of 10,000. So the cross sectional area of its skeleton and muscles at any given point will increase by a factor of 10,0002, or 108, but its mass will increase by a factor of 10,0003, or 1012.

Which means that far from being super strong, our ant has become ten thousand times weaker that it was when compared to its size! Such an enlarged animal could not possibly lift its own body weight, let alone tear down buildings or chomp up mad scientists. Indeed, our super ant's skeleton would more than likely just fracture and collapse under its own weight.

This is from http://www.ditl.org, the Daystrom Institute Technical Library. This comes from the issue of the common problem in Star Trek of VFX scaling up seemingly small vessels to make them look more deadly to the larger Enterprise.

Basically, you cannot simply scale up something and expect to it to be even stronger or just as strong. If you scale a human down to ant size, a human would lift 500 times it's weight, as opposed to ants can only lift 10 times their weight.