Human hair, nails and makeup

[Guest]

Here is a rather superficial question that I has been nagging at me for some time.

We know that guyvers can't regenerate clothes, but do regenerate the body. That's fact, but as with anything the devil is in the detail, in regards to how they regenerate.

If a guyver was to have long nails, the summon the armour, would the armour shorten the nails for the sake of combat effectiveness Or in the case of full-body destruction, grow them back to a certain length, or not alter them at all

If a guyver was to have specially treated hair, say a perm , then after summoning and discarding the guyver unit, would the hair be stripped of non-naturally occuring chemicals or the affects of chemicals, and/or would the hair be shortened if it was exceptionally long? And also, it must be asked, would the guyver regnerate the hair as it was or after reversing whatever treatment(s) were done to it

In the case of controlled damage, peroxide for example, would a guyver reverse the affects or leave them be

Also if a guyver was wearing make-up, would this make-up be removed upon activation as standard, or would it survive the guyver's activation?

I know this is an odd question, but it is relevant in regards to guyvers using disguises such as dyed hair and make-up and so on, also I'm just plain curious as to what your guys think about this, and if there is any definite proof proving things one way or another.

How does a guyver affect these details, does it affect them, does it ignore these details and so forth . Perhaps I'm not being very clear, but...

I put this in the science secition because I honestly can't think of a better section for this topic to fall under.

[*Jess♥]

The guyver reproduced shos scar accurately.

the guyver is likely to get rid of any potentially harmful chemicals or materials.

in short the guyver would regenerate the host 'clean' if the hair was bleached it would remain bleached:- the damage would remain. if the hair was coloured the colour as a foreign material would be expelled.

[Guest]

I was thinking of experimenting with the streak of hair dye in my fic, but I've stopped writing for a while now, havn't I?

The armor doesn't affect clothes, so it shouldn't affect harmless makeup or anything. If it's not a part of the host, I wouldn't count on the armor to include mess with it.

I'm guessing that if the hair was bleached before merging with the unit-g the armor will count it as a scar and continually regenerate it bleached for all time. If the hair is bleached, the armor will 'heal' the hair to return it to it's natural cellular form before the armor ever retracts.

[*zeo]

As with the example with the cloths the unit will only interfer with such factors when host is regenerated.

I.E. The unit does not remove items such as cloths but neither does it regenerate them after host is damaged. So gaps in clothing will show area where host had been damaged.

So if the unit regenerates host from just CM then it is possible the hair color would return to its normal state unless unit memorizes certain states from time of bonding like it does for scars. But hair and nails are basically useful waste products of the body so it is questionable at what level of detail the unit would restore them.

Consequently a definite answer at this time is pure conjecture since the Manga has not shown any definite examples relevant to your question. Too many questions still abound about such details of the inner workings of the Guyver Unit that until Takaya clears it up we can only guess.

That aside my personal guess is that it will restore the host natural hair color and regenerate hair to length host had it at time of bonding.

We do know that aside from regeneration host can have makeup and cloths without the unit removing them as it will only remove objects that interfere with host, such as handcuffs, etc.

Part of my reasoning is bleaching won't effect natural color perminently any more than hair coloring agents. Only damage to roots will do that so it is unlikely the unit will regenerate altered hair color any more than the unit would regenerate original clothing worn by host at time of bonding.

Hope that helps.

[Guest]

I'm personally still rather iffy on the it can't regenerate clothes thing. The incident with Agito he disengage the armor pretty much as soon as it would let him. Which I hold as part of why he was about ready to pass out, low blood levels and all that good stuff.

On the other hand when Sho's carrying Mizuki on his back covered with a article of clothing that should have a big hole through the stomach area and be soaked in blood, which we don't see. Of course, in Sho's case the infusion of energy from boosting basically instantly repaired otherwise fatal damage to his body.

I think the view that it's an absolutest thing is flawed. Think of it more in terms of priorities and objectives.

-The first priority when regenerating is of course to bring the bodily systems back into operation.

-The second priority would be to bring them back up to full strength.

-The third and last priority would be to repair things unimportant to continued functioning or survival, like clothes.

If the first priority is not taken care of we know you cannot unlock the armor. They've made that abundantly clear. Agito in manga and Sho in anime following the battle with the Hyper Zoanoid team 5 show they can disengage the armor without the second priority being met, which leaves them physically weak. So my view is it has to do with how long you stay in the armor and let it do its thing. Instead of a absolute yes it can, no it can't because it doesn't force them to deal. Why should it force them to have their clothes repaired afterall?

That's my take on it anyway. Of course, I also think of it as self-sustaining with a built in generator running off dimensional energy instead of a battery that just slowly runs down.

[Sully]

I'm personally still rather iffy on the it can't regenerate clothes thing. The incident with Agito he disengage the armor pretty much as soon as it would let him. Which I hold as part of why he was about ready to pass out, low blood levels and all that good stuff.

Unless you have a point of cannon to support you in saying that Unit-G can regeneration cloths then it is rather useless to bring it up. Either support what you said with referance with from the book or drop it.

[*zeo]

Well remember FOG3 modern day clothing are no longer made of purely organic materials so it would not be likely the Unit would be able to regenerate them even if for some reason it would even bother trying. After all clothing is a human invention and is doubtful the Creators would have used anything equivalent.

Besides cloths are not physically part of the host so no reason for the Unit to bother with it.

A good example is when they revealed the Gigantic in the Manga, Sho had been cocooned for months, this was clearly more for the unit's benefit than his since it took nowhere near that time for his CM to regenerate him, and when the unit finally disengaged it left a very naked Sho.

That aside I do think there is some truth to your priorities theory for host regeneration, but only with two levels of priority.

[Guest]

I'm personally still rather iffy on the it can't regenerate clothes thing. The incident with Agito he disengage the armor pretty much as soon as it would let him. Which I hold as part of why he was about ready to pass out, low blood levels and all that good stuff.

Unless you have a point of cannon to support you in saying that Unit-G can regeneration cloths then it is rather useless to bring it up. Either support what you said with referance with from the book or drop it.

On the other hand when Sho's carrying Mizuki on his back covered with a article of clothing that should have a big hole through the stomach area and be soaked in blood, which we don't see. Of course, in Sho's case the infusion of energy from boosting basically instantly repaired otherwise fatal damage to his body.

I'm sorry adding the reference to exactly when that was slipped my mind. Breaking habits can be a little difficult. This is the events surrounding Aptom calling Sho out around the time Sho can't transform in manga. Mizuki's clothings end up being shredded and she wears his shirt when they're running through the zoafied town. The same shirt he was wearing when Aptom drove one of those Enzyme II appendages straight through him and he was wearing while lying in a rather large pool of his own blood before boosting. The hole is not in evidence when Mizuki is wearing it, nor is the blood for that matter.

Alternately it can be pointed out Agito's shirt was fine until he boosted and thus for it to be damaged the damage must somehow transition through the armor itself. Therefore any and all incidents involving penetration of the Guyver body armor that don't have evidence of it transfered to the clothing indicate this capability as well. Seems like at least Sho's outfit he was wearing under the armor when he went against his dad was missing a certain hole in the chest region where a Enzyme II appendage went right through when we see him again.

It could also be pointed out when Sho's all depressed after being regenerated and wondering if he's the real Sho there is not internal dialogue comment about being naked after he disengaged the armor. Not that, that proves anything.

I doubt the gravity control orb can be called purely organic either. Is there a reason to limit it to only being able to reproduce purely organic materials?

I agree Priority 3 is very low priority in the units view, but I'd stop short of saying it can't. It's more like an enviromental hazard suit, it's main goal is to keep the host alive and running. Other things in relation to that are not overly important in its view.

[*Jess♥]

I'd have to agree on some points. about the guyver maybe being able to repair clothes at its whim... why couldn't that be possible? although sho has been killed and when he was brought back there was no clothes maybe that was because there was no template for the guyver to work off? after all anything is possible it is science fiction isn't it?

either way can't be proven coz it isn't actually written down anywhere "the guyver can't regenerate polyester" so this is all actually just speculation.

since FOG3 actually has brought forward some evidence that suggests that the clothes can be repaired i would think that the conclusion would be the guyver can regenerate clothing... to a point.

thats my view anyway.

[Guest]

It seems very evident from the mangas that like Fog3 said as long as a template of the clothing is present then it can, at low priority, be reproduced...

Say a single thread of a jumper remains intact within the armour, as long as the host is at 100% functionality, it can be completely re-formed.

I would have thought that since the armour is individually adapted depending on the host characteristics and configurations then it must be able to make a template of any matter... the information would be stored in the control medal as a RSI 'residual Self Image.

Before this is shoved aside it should be noted that the control medal can reproduce matter from a single cell over time and beyond that it even has all of it's host memories and thoughts stored.

I find it hard to believe that the guyver unit can respond in this way with, so far, all form of matter it has taken to from creator to human and even zoanoid.

[*zeo]

Consider, the Guyver Unit is a creation of the Aliens that most probably did not have our equivalent of cloths.

Clothing is a human invention so why would the unit even consider it for regeneration?

Logically it would not and even if it did it would have defaulted to the host original clothing for the same reason it restores scars and such. Since that is clearly not the case then it very unlikely the unit would ever bother with regenerating clothing.

Secondly, I believe you are refering to the censored version of the Manga for that clothing example. Even then it is baggy on her and the blood could have simply been absorbed by the unit when it regenerated his wound.

Also consider all the other times the Guyver has been damaged, even after the unit is maintained longer than required to regenerate host the cloths are still not repaired, but similarly they are not bloody.

[Guest]

Logically it would not and even if it did it would have defaulted to the host original clothing for the same reason it restores scars and such. Since that is clearly not the case then it very unlikely the unit would ever bother with regenerating clothing.

Look if I'm wrong then I'm wrong but it just seems to me that if the unit can bond with creator and human DNA alike, without modification, then why wouldn't it be able to break down the structure of clothing and store this info... It could save the hosts current clothing, skin tones, age, hair style, ect... each time it is activated.

If the unit reverted back to the host's form at time of bonding then Agito wouldn't have started out with hair to past his shoulder blades and ended up with it almost reaching his backside...

More to the point since hair and finger nails are dead cells then surely, this being dead, would also be seen as unecessary and therefore would not be regrown. (Imagine seeing a bald Sho after regenerating from one of his many deaths)

I'm not trying to pick or raise tempers but I just think that such an advanced piece of technology could scan and identify the molecules that any given item of clothing consists of.

[Guest]

I agree with you. Hair, and finger nails just might seem to be separate. As humans age, such factors as nutrition, and physical abuse also help determine what we physically become. Clones don't look exactly alike all the time. There is one species of cloned cat(?) that has different furry patterns for every clone, because although they are chemically the same, the chemicals and such (insert techno jargon) were arranged differently-the DNA doesn't determine everything.

You might also want to point out all the symbiots that humans already carry with us. The little parasite microbes living in our eyelashes. And more importantly, the stomach bacteria that helps us digest our food. If we lose these, I was wondering how long it would take to get them back? Would we have severe stomach cramps? Has the manga given any sign of this when Sho was regenerated? That's what I'm looking for.

Volume eight says that the unit-remover works by erasing all 'human data' from the control metal. I guess that if the control metal is erased it returns to it's unit-g state. It doesn't mention anything about clothes. I agree with Zeo that with the floppy clothes, the tears might not have been drawn in. Not everything is shown in the drawings, not even the boost sequence. But I must conceed a possibility.

[Guest]

Consider, the Guyver Unit is a creation of the Aliens that most probably did not have our equivalent of cloths.

Clothing is a human invention so why would the unit even consider it for regeneration?

Logically it would not and even if it did it would have defaulted to the host original clothing for the same reason it restores scars and such. Since that is clearly not the case then it very unlikely the unit would ever bother with regenerating clothing.

A) Justify your assumption that Advent likely had no equivalent of clothing. Preferably without using the fallacy of begging the question.

B) Would you mind showing me your proof (ie logical proof) for your assertion on what it would logically do?

Also consider all the other times the Guyver has been damaged, even after the unit is maintained longer than required to regenerate host the cloths are still not repaired, but similarly they are not bloody.

Care to provide some more specific examples other then right after Agito went up against Team 5?

[*zeo]

Okay, the problem is this idea of regenerating clothing does not follow what we know about the Guyver unit. It is a living device created to be used by living sentient beings. Clothing is not alive and is not physically part of the host. The unit would see it as no more than a thin barrier between it and the host. The simple fact the unit allows the clothing to remain at all is amazing enough. The Creators didn't have cloths and even though we are alien to the Creators we are both living sentient beings so the fact the Guyver Units work on us in no way supports the idea that the unit could somehow adapt to regenerate cloths.

Clothing is an invention for us to adapt to our environment, Creators controlled their environment and use the Guyver Unit so they had no need for clothing. Also Alkanphel was born naked and never given any cloths by the Creators, so your trying to say the unit would adapt to an alien concept such as clothing simply because it is on the host at the time.

The Creators used organic technology, they could adapt to what ever environment they may find themselves in. Clothing is a primitive adaptation which is little more than improvision. The only thing they took a long time to develop was the human brain, once they developed that they had no problem turning us into Zoaforms. Even among human cultures clothing was invented more for the necessity than anything else. Tribes in warm climates still hardly wear anything they don't have to.

The only other reason to wear cloths is emotions like shame, etc which is very iffy if the Creators had them or whether they had any concern for their physical form at all, which by itself is iffy with what we know about the Creators.

Hair and nails may be generated from our body waste products but they are part of our makeup, they serve a purpose, just like horns, claws, etc serve a purpose for other animals. So they are part of us and in noway can you compare that to cloths.

The real question is not whether the unit is capable of regenerating clothing but rather whether it would ever bother. Clothing is not alive and not physically part of the host. It has no DNA nor any DNA from which it can be patterned after. Hair and nails may be waste products but they are generated because our DNA tells our body to produce them. There is nothing to support the regeneration of clothing.

The simple fact is there is nothing in the manga that supports the idea of cloths regenerating that can't be explained by either the cloths being too baggy to see the tears or by censorship by the publisher.

You are all entitled to your opinions but logically there is no real basis for this conclusion.

[*Jess♥]

zeo1234, there is a slight flaw in what you are saying. there are parts of the human body that do not contain DNA. Im pretty sure that some blood cells don't have DNA. so when the guyver regenerates the host does it leave those parts out? not that i'm saying that its a direct parallel to clothes etc but there is no basis in the 'no dna' argument to say thats why the guyver would not regenerate clothing.

now before you say that it would generate these things because it is in our natural makup to have these things manufactured, it is in our natural makup to make and wear clothes. so if the guyver makes those things necessary in the body that do not have dna then it would also make things that are necessary to the human condition. it has a map of the hosts mind so theres no reason why (as was mentioned earlier) the guyver cannot use the residual self image to create what the host deems is necessary.

[Guest]

ok not to go back on my thoughts but I have to say RSI isn't exactly an official guyver theory, it's just a theory I had about the guyver's ability to regenerate cells to their present form each time rather then reverting back to host form when first bonded.

I still stand by my views...

Top layers of skin, any hair past the roots and all nail (past the connections to the skin) are also not living (maybe all guyver should deactivate to end up with cru cuts).

I think you under estimate the guyvers technology.

I'm not saying that the creators (who I believe have never actually made any official claim to making the guyver) programmed the guyver to recognize clothing I'm saying that the Guyver works on a neural and molecular level with the host. At a molecular level all things are connected because we can only create inorganic fibres/substances from a mixture of organic properties. We don't just decide to make something and then pluck it out of the air, we have to use things that are already here on earth basically nothing new is created past what the earth naturally has and even this is a mixture of different chemical properties.

The guyver wasn't programmed with any knowledge of clothing but neither was it programmed with knowledge of skin hair or anything else... It learns about its host by scanning its properties and this is how and why each guyver looks different from another. Much like other symbiotic lifeforms the guyver adapts to its host and environment so that both can survive together. This possibly could contain clothing as clothing is not only a molecular substance but is also connected to out own consciousness and therefore readable and storeable by the guyver since it can read and store our memories and mental characteristics.

I'd say the mentall side at least is supported from the guyver creature that formed from Sho's arm... It was not formed from the CM and so didn't have any memories or thoughts from Sho's conciousness. I'm not sure whether it's human form it took had clothes but if it didn't then further support and even if it did then it's still possible that it could reprocess these to its last memory before being removed from Sho

[Guest]

Ok Maverik, I am going to like you in terms of science theories. You have quoted the law of conservation of energy, and applied it as a philosophy to operation procedures of the control metal. I agree.

Zeo can still get away with his DNA thing on the blood, the bone marrow in our bodies do have DNA, and it is what generates blood.

Sho had a scar, and the chapter with the arm clone also pointed out that when Sho was cloned by his armor, it regenerated his scar too. Scar's aren't DNA, but Zeo once tried arguing that any superior species would store all info on the body in the DNA. Kinda like Aptom's memories I guess.

I'd still like to know if the armor is regenerating stomach bacteria, otherwise Sho wouldn't be able to eat anything without getting severe stomach pains for a while. This is the same reason why some pennacillin can be bad. Severe pain. No one wants to add anything to this.

Zeo already pointed out that people don't naturally wear clothes. In tropic regions, people have no problem letting it all hang out. The most they wear are tool belts. This was before Europeans started coming around and ruining it for everybody. Clothing was a tool, origionally. When early humans migrated from tropic regions to the cooler ones. It was a tool adaptation that later had phsycological adaptations. But I will argue against Zeo that clothing was a completely alien concept to the creators, the armor is very similiar, and note I said similiar, the whole point is that I said similiar, to clothing. The armor is more than a wearable suit, but there is the wearable aspect to it.

Back on topic, volume eight said the control metal holds all the human data. It did not specify DNA. It's quite possible this includes DNA, but more, such as host memories. The scar regeneration was why we started the theory that the control metal basically takes a snap shot of the host physically upon boosting, because it regenerated the entire body, including the scar. This would account for hair and nail leangth. But the clothes are never changed back to what the host was origionally wearing, thus, they must not be included. Any tears that we don't see in the clothes after a battle just might be an oversight of the artwork.

[Guest]

I hate to inform you of this zeo, but that?s not logic nor does it really have much of anything to do with logic. That?s just standard reasoning, with an Appeal to Authority in the form of appealing to the inherent authority of logic.

I?ll try to put it in an actual logic form so you can see the difference. Please note there are only absolute it is always and there exists statements in logic.

Assumption 1: Clothing is a purely human invention.

Justification: Appeal to Ignorance fallacy.

Assumption 2: The Advent have no equivalent or parallel to clothes.

Justification: Appeal to Ignorance fallacy. As presented ignores that armor can be disengaged and the principle that the armor cannot make its own ATP and thus needs to disengage the armor to eat, that has been held by Zeo and Sully. Especially problem associated with running out of ATP in a otherwise hostile environment. Ignores that the Advent did not spontaneously generate with high technology levels.

Assumption 3: All things not Advent will not be covered or dealt with by Advent technology.

Assumption 1 is held to be true => Assumption 2 should be true => under the auspices of Assumption 3 the Guyver cannot regenerate clothes.

That the line of reasoning exists does not prove it is true. Especially with fallacies present.

Other assumptions not related to the logic statement include but are not limited to:

Assumption 4: The Advents? bodies all used DNA.

Justication: Appeal to Ignorance fallacy.

Assumption 5: A lifeform created to be particularly adaptable will actually be at a handicap compared to its creators on adapting to various environments.

Would you care to clarify and straighten us out on what you?re actually saying Zeo?

[Guest]

I dont know if the armor can restore clotheing but what always got to me were their shoes. The armor has 2 rip through their shoes to seperate their toes, but when they take off their armor their shoes are still in one piece. How does that work?

[*Jess♥]

whoever said they were separate toes? do we ever see them split apart? i think you are confusing the pattern of the armor with toes.

[Guest]

Ok first off the armour is called from a parallel dimension to ours so it doesn't rip through anything thats between the host and itself as long as it can pass it's molecular structure through to the host. This is why hair is not taken into account in the shape of the Guyver. It doensn't so much cover the hair as just phase over the molecules of hair.

Murakami's Change to proto Zoalord form removed his clothes becuase it was a physical change to his physical appearance much like zoanoids.

Although the guyver looks very different from it's host the host is still the same physical appearance underneath.

[Guest]

Back on topic, volume eight said the control metal holds all the human data. It did not specify DNA. It's quite possible this includes DNA, but more, such as host memories. The scar regeneration was why we started the theory that the control metal basically takes a snap shot of the host physically upon boosting, because it regenerated the entire body, including the scar. This would account for hair and nail leangth. But the clothes are never changed back to what the host was origionally wearing, thus, they must not be included. Any tears that we don't see in the clothes after a battle just might be an oversight of the artwork.

False Dilemma fallacy, prove that the unit can only be taking data from the moment of boosting. Telepathic organs and the higher dimensional nature do not require this by any means. Also memories are directly tied with the physical wiring of the brain itself, so if it only was allowed to take snapshots at boosting if their brains were vented prior to boosting they'd either lose all data or all data after the previous boost. A significant oversight in design.

[Guest]

What i meant was look at the foot pattern of the guyvers feet. The units feet looks like the japanese style shoe/sandle where its like 2 toes on the inside and 3 on the the outside. Im not saying that the armor gave him extra toes or anything like that. But if its that same type of way the toes are then the armor has 2 get throught the shoe, no?

[Guest]

No cause, as I said before, the clothes wouldn't even count as a barrier as far as the unit is concerned. The unit is always, partly at least, right behind it's host why can it not be seen... Its in a parallel dimension.

Why arn't the clothes seen in the sahpe of the armour or torn by the armour... SAME REASON