If enzyme fused with a guyver

[Guest]

Hey! first post here. I was Just wondering would it do if it happened would the unit disolve on contact or would the unit adjust to it

[guyverfanatic]

The unit adjust and boosts the host abilities, so you would have an uber Enzyme if it were say Enzyme 3!!!

[Guest]

if this enzyme would spit, then the guyver i the way woulh have a big hole in his cheast (if there would be something left of him)

[Guest]

I think upon trying to merge with the Enzyme, the acidic properties of the blood would disolve the organic material of the boost armor. The Enzyme 1 model would be the most lethal, as that enzyme is designed specifically against the boost armor. I'd say it is possible, just possible, that the boost armor may be able to join with the host without penetrating into the blood stream, but even still, one cut and the armor would burn.

There are limits to how the boost armor can adapt and enhance the host.

[Guest]

It would have to merge with the human form of any of the Enzyme models. I agree with what Young Guyver has stated above. I just wonder if the unit was left on for a prolonged period of time, upon the Zoanoid form, would it adapt to the acid and become immune to its proporties.

[Guest]

yes that is true but if it tried to even make a fist his hand would probably start to dissolve from the liquids so even if it did happen he still couldn't fight

[Guest]

You sure? from my impression when a guyver bonds with a subject it boosts and enhances but in order to do this the unit has to adapt to fit the life form it's on. I guess what I'am trying to say is if an Enyme isn't going to be injured by it's own acidic qaulities then the guyver it bonds to is going to pick this trait up and become immune also.

[Guest]

i agree with Sparky, the main thing in guyver unit is not the living tissue but the control medal. Guyver armor adapts to the host by commands of the medal, and if needed it also alters g-units dna, to optimaly adapt to the host

So an enzyme has no problems using guyver armor

[Guest]

You sure? from my impression when a guyver bonds with a subject it boosts and enhances but in order to do this the unit has to adapt to fit the life form it's on. I guess what I'am trying to say is if an Enyme isn't going to be injured by it's own acidic qaulities then the guyver it bonds to is going to pick this trait up and become immune also.

At least as far as Enzyme 1 immune isn't really the proper term. From my General Chemistry for Engineers class they made it pretty clear a enzyme is a protein that works as a catalyst to break down a very specific molecule. Enzyme 1's enzymatic fluid being specifically targetted for the biobooster material. It isn't immune it just isn't normally infused with what the enzyme is geared for. I support YoungGuyver's interpretation.

[Guest]

FOG3, i'm sorry, but you are wrong. The enzyme blood targets not a molecule, but a DNA sequence. This means that enzymes blood is designed to atack human-guyver armor DNA, it would work completly different on lets say creator armor. If enzymes blood were supposed to targe molecule, then it would disolve not only any type of armor, but also any type of organic material(including enzyme itsefl), because DNA sequences are made of 4 different molecules, remove atliest one of them and whole DNA would siply colapse.

[Guest]

There is a major problem with people's perception of how the armor adapts to it's host. The story said that the armor boosts the host based on the host's properties, that's it. There are limits.

It was technically feasable to genetically alter the human bones and muscle.

The rest of the human organs (not including nervious system) aren't upgraded at all, they are replaced by the armor's superior version.

In fact, there are limits to what the armor can generate. Otherwise, why wouldn't the unit-g simply form a gigantic? There just might be a slight difference in the biochemestry of a gigantic that allows itself to handle a bit more power.

a freind of mine did some translations (that I want to get verified before I'll agree with them perfectly), but he was saying the control metal uses a data network when constructing the armor. If the Advent have research biology, then certain parts such as 'heart', 'lung', and 'megasmasher', might be dowloadable through the control metal like a program patch. That is, if a unit has the hardware ability to support it. Just a thought that I'm only partially supporting until I get a real translation

[Guest]

It was technically feasable to genetically alter the human bones and muscle.

The rest of the human organs (not including nervious system) aren't upgraded at all, they are replaced by the armor's superior version.

the rest is not replaced, the rest is enchanced by guyver armor, but this enhacment is only activated in guyver form, because it drains power

egz: normaly human can endure max 10g, but guyver unit can fly at max 300 MPH and reach this speed from 0 MPH to 300 in 3 sec (or even faster)this means that g force is equal to ~13 g(and more). This means, that human body would simply collapse, when facing such force. Now if you think that 13g is not much, then try to imagine what force is working on warrior unit.

Conclusion--> guyver armor enhances not only bones and muscles, but also all inner organs, so the host is able to survive.

In fact, there are limits to what the armor can generate. Otherwise, why wouldn't the unit-g simply form a gigantic? There just might be a slight difference in the biochemestry of a gigantic that allows itself to handle a bit more power.

ofcourse there are limits to what armor can do, but the limits depend not on armor, but only on host. Unit-g can't form a gigantic at the beginig, because the host could not handle sush dramatic change. The host needs to be changed into normal guyver, only then he is able to handle gigantic armor.

but lets stic to the topic, what i'm trying to say is that enzyme can use guyver armor, because enzymes blood cant destroy control medal, this means the control medal is able to control the adaptation process to the host, and it also can change dna structure of g-unit to optimally fit the host

[GuyverXenon]

Ok here is my two cents on the matter. Enzyme would destory itself if it bio boosted. Enzymes blood was designed to destroy bio booster armor and can thus destroy human tissue due to its potency. The only reason enzyme didnt destroy itself originally was due to how he was made. Take the lining of your stomach as an example. Its lining can handle the powerful acid within which will dissolve just about everything else besides bones. The unit itself has limits and one of these is the susceptability to high frequency sounds and powerful acids. And the Unit didnt gain the ability of the Gigantic Upgrade until after Alkanphel damaged it as well as a Relic causing the two medals of the Relic and Guyver to merge and create a cocoon around Guyver 1. Long after that when the medals were merged and healed apparently the cocoon opened to reveal the Gigantic armor. Remember that the unit was never made as a weapon only a tool. The Gigantic upgrade was a complete accident and by all rights wouldnt exist if it werent for the Mt. Minikami incident. The unit is just one layer of armor and was never designed to be more than a simple space suit of sorts. The Gigantic is actually the remains of the Mt. Minikami Relic I believe.

Back on track here. If an Enzyme managed to merge with a Guyver then the armor which is the same for all humans and zoanoids (Remember it was just a tool with no application for weaponry so no special types of units were created in the official Guyver universe. Like the Gigantes Pod, Guyver Zero was a complete accident.) then it would only be alright until it bled on the armor. Then the armor which has the same DNA structure no matter what the host would dissolve. Now if by some fluke it can pull the ONE Gigantes pod on the planet from Guyver 1 or 3 then just maybe it could survive bleeding on itself as we have seen that the powers and durability of the Gigantic armor far surpass those of the standard armor. In fact nobody truly knows the full extent of the Gigantes' abilities. I personally have seen some rather weird and neat things done with it in the Manga that I would of never even dreamt of it doing. So perhaps if Enzyme in human form became a Guyver and pulled the Gigantic pod off one of the Guyvers(Note this means he will probably need to have stronger will power than Guyver 3 which I highly doubt the Enzyme ever would.) and then transmutated he might be able to survive his own Zoanoid blood.

[Guest]

Excuse me?!!!! I don’t know what I’m talking about? What are you basing your nonsense off of Brolly? The relevant quote from Manga volume 1 page 155 is

This enzyme chemically reacts with the Guyver’s outer armor, breaking it down. Unfortunately too much exposure to air causes the enzyme to lose its properties. It can’t be air propelled like Zerebubuth’s Solvent.

I don’t think I need to finish the page with the alternate delivery system decided upon. Canon just proved you wrong Brolly. Okay for you laypeople an enzyme is a protein that works as a catalyst for a specific molecule and only that molecule. A catalyst means it lowers the activation energy, which allows a chemical reaction that might not normally proceed due to high activation energy to proceed. Incidentally exactly what is described in the quote. For Enzyme 1 it’s not acid people it’s an enzyme that only attacks the Guyver material. Enzyme isn’t somehow inherently immune to it just isn’t what the enzyme is geared for much like the various enzymes in the human body break down harmful chemicals but don’t break you down. I don’t appreciate rabid fanboys who ignore canon for their own delusions of grandeur, which you seem to be acting like at the moment.

Oh and humans don't collapse under a mere 13g. Not to mention care to tell us where you got your figures from to make you little calculation? Oh I know, you made it up like your DNA nonsense.

[Guest]

g =a=(v-v0)/t

g- gravity (1g ~9,8 m/s)

a- acceleration

v- current speed(300 MPH=482,7 km/h ~134m/s)

v0- primary speed(O MPH)

t- time (3 sec)

g=4 (i don't know where i got 13g)

I made some mistakes, because i was half a sleep and didn't knew how many km there are in mile(FOG3, just for you i found out that 1 Mile=1609 meters), but i didnt just made this up, and talkin' about mere 13g- try handeling it for more than 3 sec without loosing consciousness and i will think that you are a VERY strong man

as i said before these are numbers for standar guyver armor, now try to think about warrior armor or enforcer

oh, about that DNA, my biology classes were a lot worse than my physics

[Guest]

Question..dunno if it was answered here or not or the like. But eh..*Shrug*

From what i've gathered, from all the posts the G-Unit in essence; simply gives it's host a "partial" upgrade. Replacing this organ here with a newer, better version of it self and the like. So; if Enzyme -did- somehow manage to bond with a G-Unit...why wouldn't the unit try to adapt and outright, construct a newer version of the enzyme acid as not to be harmed by it? Just like if a standard unit would become Gigantic, therefore the unit and host gets more of an upgrade. Remember, didn't Zerebubuse had the "Anti-Guyver" acid as well, didn't he?

(Mind you, I'm going offa the fanfics there, just to be clear on that one.)

Even if the Fanfiction here has no direct construct of the actual Animes/Manga's, it's still possible is it not? It'd be one helluva challenge to do; but not entirely impossible persay. I believe for Enzyme to actually get a unit and bond with it; he'd have to be in the likes of his human form. Simply due to the fact by that time, even then the unit would be "ready" for the bio boosting and enzyme like blood. As well as draw off of the natural immunity that the Enzyme has against it's acid.

Then again..I just ate...so...kinna drifting along in a daze. If this is wrong...well...den dun mind me! *Sage nod then bolts all paranoid like*

[Guest]

Glad you managed to correct that yourself because otherwise I was just about to. Actually I wasn't mad, appearences to the contrary, at you it's just in my experience it takes a little more heavy handed measures to make a rabid fanboy realize his mistake. I had a suspicion you were one and I wanted to knock that nonsense off ASAP. People are usually more trusting of figures they see without checking them and as many board members probably don't even know the relevant equation let alone want to check calculations a comment had to be made. I suppose we had something of a miscomunication there you said collapse and I thought as in collapse as in a structure collapsing when you meant be rendered unconscious. Still I don't think that really disproves YoungGuyver's point especially when it comes out as ~4.56G according to your figures. I hope you become a good contributing member of the board. Oh and make sure you have a clue about what you're talking about before you claim someone is wrong and start spewing BS.

[Guest]

Please people, stop with the physics. My head hurts so bad .

OK I'am trying to get a conclusion from what main facts we have here but thanks to all your physics I am severely brain strained and If I miss something really important then someone point it out plz.

OK from what we know the enzyme that Enzyme excretes reacts with the guyver dissolving it. My idea was based kind of two ways.

The first being if the guyver unit bonds to an enzyme it is going to adapt and become immune with the traits of enzyme, I got this from the simple idea that if an enzyme doesn't get unjured by it's own acidic qaulities (I know that the enzyme isn't an acid, I just use this word for the sake of it) then the guyver it bonds to will be the same. But after thinking about it, with the idea of co-factors and everything else this idea is just stupid so tose this idea out the window.

The second was basicly more scientific and had better principles (Because I thought through). The idea is, the enzyme was designed to work on a guyver, a human one so being bonded to an enzyme could change something about the substrate component of the armour that this catalyst works on, therefore this is a different armour and not the one the enzyme was made to work on.

While sitting here I also came on the idea that the guyver armour bonding to an enzyme would have a chance to sample the enzyme differently, not through touch but through the actual bonding process and through this it can see the enzyme on the genetic level. I'am not pulling things up out of thin air when I say this but we truly don't what a guyver is capable of so by sampling the enzyme like this it may come up with an ummunity. One of the ideas for his immunity that comes to mind would be a non-competive inhibiter (A very strong one before anyone says anything as even enough of an effective enough non-competitive inhibiter can stop a reaction completely)

I can't think of anything more right now cause your physics talk is still babbling about in my head so I wait for someone else to respond before I try and continue.

[*zeo]

I would have to side with YoungGuyver's opinion on this matter. The Unit-G is definitely capable of amazing adaptability but I see no indications that it could alter its makeup enough to make itself immune to Enzyme acid. Essentially the bonding process leans more towards the host being assimulated into the unit rather than the unit being assimulated into the host so it is unlikely the unit could gain host immunity to acid. Especially considering the host probably doesn't need protection from the acid since it's specifically designed to only dissolve Guyver armor, at least for Enzyme 1. Enzyem 2 and 3 have a remote possibility but also unlikely. It is more likely the unit would simply neutralize the host ability to produce the acid.

Oh and humans don't collapse under a mere 13g.

Actually 13 G's can cause structural collapse as well. The human body can only take high G's for very short periods of time. Even trained fighter pilots struggle to stay conscious at the 7-9 G range. Think about it, 13 G's means a normally 160 pound person would weigh about a TON! That's like dropping a small car on top of someone. A normal human would be lucky as hell to survive 3 second of that without a stroke. I don't think anyone really wants to see what happens to a human after prolonged exposure to 13 G's, yuck. A human may not get crushed right away but after a few minutes the body will definitely not be in its original shape.

As for Enzyme 1, since acid is a term to describe a chemical reaction, it's valid to call Enzyme 1's blood an acid. It doesn't matter if it only affects a particular component of the Guyver, it acted like an acid and thus can be called an acid.

[Guest]

the rest is not replaced, the rest is enchanced by guyver armor, but this enhacment is only activated in guyver form, because it drains power

Actually, Takaya has stated the rest of the organs are replaced. It's canon. I can quote you the exact page and paragraph if you like. If I pull out my notes I can even sound out the Japanese words for you. This is not really debatable.

The nervous system is left alone, the muscles and bones are enhanced, the rest of the organs are digressed. It's canon, stated in the art book (visual data files), written by Takaya, no more argument possible.

And very good point about the Enzyme's 2 and 3 Zeo, I almost forget that they don't use the real Enzyme acid.

[TheGuyversWill]

Well the point is, we've never seen a Guyver on anything but a human. And most of the information we have of the Guyver comes from Chronos, and they don?t even know what to expect, since they've only seen Guyver's on humans.

The idea of it bonding with the Enzyme, is that the Enzyme's blood is designed to burn through Guyver armor on contact. When the Guyver tried to bond with it, the organism would come into contact with the blood, and the blood would destroy it. Perhaps if we had seen the Guyver on another being besides humans, we could come up with a better response to this question, but without another example, its rather useless to argue over the subject

[Guest]

Well the point is, we've never seen a Guyver on anything but a human. And most of the information we have of the Guyver comes from Chronos, and they don?t even know what to expect, since they've only seen Guyver's on humans.

The idea of it bonding with the Enzyme, is that the Enzyme's blood is designed to burn through Guyver armor on contact. When the Guyver tried to bond with it, the organism would come into contact with the blood, and the blood would destroy it. Perhaps if we had seen the Guyver on another being besides humans, we could come up with a better response to this question, but without another example, its rather useless to argue over the subject

What about Guyver Zoanoid, Arlen Crane?

[TheGuyversWill]

He was in a Movie, not a comic.

If you want to say that doesnt matter, we can note the Zoalord from the first flick...

'Nuff said.

[Guest]

He was in a Movie, not a comic.

If you want to say that doesnt matter, we can note the Zoalord from the first flick...

'Nuff said.

Point taken

[Guest]

An acid works very differently from a enzyme. I can't find any dictionary definition that would allow you the wiggle room to even imply that they're the same thing. It appears I need to pull out my textbook and explain it in excruciating detail to make it clear what the difference is, but that will have to wait until at least tommorow after I finish my last final.

In my defence the way he wrote it I interpreted it to mean any exposure of the human body to 13G would cause it to structurally collapse. He said nothing of sustained acceleration in the claim I attacked and as written it said "human body" so I assumed he was refering to sttructural collapse. Given that humans have survived very brief exposure to over 1000G acceleration that is ridiculously low as I interpretted it.

Sparky what are you whining about the physics for? It's just acceleration=velocity/time and now that Brolly has explained he meant something else rather meaningless, to this debate, talk of sustained acceleration. I'd think the chemistry I've been trying to explain would make your head hurt more than that. Notice I said Chemistry from the start and nothing about biology.

Well just because we don't exactly have canon evidence to have any say on what happens if a unit bonds on something that isn't human doesn't mean we can't make decent theories and educated guesses. After all that's what this part of the board is for is it not?