Guyver vs IT

[Larz Zahn]

Alright so like the title says, how would this play out against each other? 

 

I never read the books so i'll rely heavily on those who had. 

Would a creature like IT stand a chance?

Or would the guyvers host become dinner?

[Sully]

IT heavily depends on 2 things to eat it's victims:

1) Mind control -> Won't work on a Guyver.

2) installing fear on a Guyver through it's powers / the dead eyes. Again being a form of mind control a Guyver Unit would shield the host.

After that IT can be taken out by brute force weapons from a group of children. So going toe to toe against a Guyver with head sensors and abilities to move under ground = IT is toast.

[Shin Mefilas]

Ok big spoilers for anyone who has never read the book.

 

IT as we know it is just an avatar or a very small piece of a much larger cosmic entity on the scale of H.P. Lovecrafts Outer Gods such as Azathoth and Yog-sothoth.

In IT's true form IT is beyond humen comprehension, at most people see a mass of orange lights called the Deadlights. Anyone who has ever looked upon IT's true self either goes catatonic or dies as their mind simple cant deal with such a being. IT is also trapped ouside the multiverse, likely by the power of the Dark Tower, as are many of the truly monsterus forces of King's universe. IT has be discribed as an embodyment of Universal Consumption, The Eater of Worlds and of Children.

The part of IT that lives in the town of Derry may be just a small part of a larger horror but it is no less potent. IT mainy takes the form or Robert Gray, also known as Pennywise the dancing clown. Exactly why is not know but its likely because this form can gain the trust and inspire fear in children at the same time. IT's most notible power is shape shifting, IT can become any form IT chooses, although IT prefers a form that inspires the greatest amount of fear in IT's prey as it makes them taste better. This is why it normally preys on children as their fears are often simple and easy to manifest. IT has been Pennywise, a lepper, Dracula, The Mummy, A Wolfman, The Creature from the Black Lagoon, Zombies, Corpses, A Giant Bird, The Frankenstine Monster, The Witch from Hansel & Gretel,  Jaws, Paul Bunyan and many others. However the drawback is that when it takes a shape it must obey the laws of that shape, so for example as a wolfman it can be affected by sneezing powder and silver. However it should be notied that such attacks will not do any lasting damage to IT by themsleves. Edit: infact IT's been shown to heal instantaneously. IT's final shape, when cornered in ItT's lair was that of a giant spider, this is because this is as close as the human mind can get to interpriting IT's true form and nature, however the form is also described almost like a projection, like a shape standing infrount of a light.

In terms of speed it is said to be able to travel as fast as a express train. IT's physical strength and durability will alter with IT's shape.

IT is also a master illusions and reality warping. IT's able to fill an entire bathroom with blood yet can make it invisible to everyone bar the person It's currently tormenting. IT has also been spotted in multiple locastions at once and teleported people to other locastions. It also has appeared inside photos and made them move.

IT's other great power is of a psychic nature. IT can easily read minds as well as dominate the minds of others. IT has also been described as the town of Derry itself and its influance effects everyone there, especially if they give into exil and temptastion. IT's greatest been able to create pocket hurricans and near then end of the book nearly leveled the town of Derry.

IT's last ditch power is to try and rip the souls of its foes from their bodies in a mental game of tug of war. IT can send a persons soul out of their body and through space and even out of the universe at incredible speeds. This is done because as I have already said IT is just an avatar for IT's true self. IT will try and draw the person's soul out of the universe ant into the Deadlights proper.

However it is not without a true weakness. Not being afraid of IT helps as it makes its own abilites less effective but the true way to beat it is the magic from IT's nemesis, The Turtle. The Turtle is another multiverse cosmic entity like IT but is a force for good and creation, infact it created our universe when it vomited due to a stomach ache. The Turtle is also a guardian for on of the power beams of the Dark Tower. While the Turtle cannot act on its own, it did give people, especially the Loser's Club children the potential to channel the power of the Beam agenst IT. This "magic" manifests itself through the childrens beliefs and the bond they share. This is what allows them to truly harm it as well as finding ways to dicover its true nature and lock IT into its final form of a Spider.

However despite their victory, there are signs that IT was not destroyed. a clown seen in a storm drain, an unearthly orange aura hanging over Derry and words painted in a wall....

Edited September 18, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Shin Mefilas]

54 minutes ago, Sully said:

IT heavily depends on 2 things to eat it's victims:

1) Mind control -> Won't work on a Guyver.

2) installing fear on a Guyver through it's powers / the dead eyes. Again being a form of mind control a Guyver Unit would shield the host.

After that IT can be taken out by brute force weapons from a group of children. So going toe to toe against a Guyver with head sensors and abilities to move under ground = IT is toast.

I'd have to argue agenst that Sully. They Guyver has only ever been shown to protect the user from the mental powers of mortal beings. We have no evidence to suggest that it will protect the guyver from the mental abilites of supernatural entites who do not confrom to natural laws likie IT. 

Sho dose have fears of his own it can expliot, the guyver has no way of really hurting IT at all without the outside influnce of another cosmic entity like the Turtle and in the face of the Deadlights Sho, even in his Exceed form, would be powerless. The Deadlights are not a mental attack of any kind, all IT is doing is reveling IT's true nature.

Edit: Infact comapreing Sho to IT is almost like this....

Edited September 18, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Sully]

There are no "magical" beings in the Guyver story. But in the end it doesn't matter you've to go with the content of what you're given when doing these Vs.

Telepathic powers have being used against the Guyver, the bio-boosted Host ignored them and attacked the source of them. When Hamical tried to talk with the Gigantic Cocoon he could not so, bot a good sign for IT. You're basically saying in your post "Ignore the Guyver completely, because IT rely on Telepathic powers forget the Guyver name.

After that on the pure ONE on ONE aspect of them comes into play. And in that regards nothing IT has can take a Guyver'd human host.

Without a remover, Deadlights are taking nothing from a Guyver host. The host would simply be regenerated and kill IT before it can move. Again IT was killed by 7 humans with sticks / metel spikes and other low grade weapons. A Guyver would wipe the floor with it the moment the host realised IT was full of shit and depended at the very most on the hosts fear. Either way once IT comes up against a Guyver, IT is dead.

 

And as you bought it up, an Exceed Guyver could completely obliterate IT and the town of Derry in one move. The power scale there isn't in anyway a good match. So game set, match and the Universe = an Exceed Guyver. Hell you're talking moon destroying levels of firepower there with it's controlled gravity implosion never mind an Exceed level Giga smash from low orbit pointed at the town.... It's just another level of complete destruction there.

[Shin Mefilas]

Sully I'm sorry but you are grossly under playing IT and putting to much faith in the Guyver.

IT is not full os drenn, it is a piece of a entity that is escinally an Outer God. The children only hurt it because they had the backing of another such being and their own belief in that power. Why do you think Bill hurt it despite the fact that boltgun was empty? Why in both the novel and the TV series dose an inhaler filled with water burn it like acid? The childrens weapons would do jake drenn without the power of the Turle behind them. Another example id the fact that when the childern faced it in the book as a werewolf, itching powered irrittated it but comanding shouts actually hurt IT. That is all thew power of the beam and the turtle, two multi-universel cosmic beings. Even in the modern film the Turtle has a pressance with the worde turtle on Bill and Georgie's radios, the lego turtle in Georgies room and the Turlte the children meet while swimming.

Without supernatural power of an equally powerful being to back him up Sho littrally has no way of doing any lasting damage as it will just keep reforming. Plus IT's ultimate power, the Deadlights, is something Sho has no defence against  it IS NOT A MENTAL POWER. Sho would be faced with a cosmic entity that his mind simple cant comprehend, a being who's true nature makes Archanfel look like a bactirea. Just looking is what kills or drives people insain, and all IT's doing is th eqivilent of taking of a mask. Also if pushed it will rip Sho's soul from his body and try to drag it through and out of the universe into IT. 

What can a Guyver do against that?

 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Sully]

If an Exceed wanted, there is no Earth. With a controlled gravity well (the Implosion) it can literally consume  the world. Outside that with the Exceed it can obliterate the whole town leaving IT nothing to feed on if it didn't kill him.

IT depends on victims living inside the town area of Derry to feed. Remove it's feeding zone = no foods for it.

Again if you're mixing the supernatural and the world of the Guyver, then you've to apply equal limitations. ANY organic being including it depends on a body. If it's not organic then why doesn't it feed?

The Guyver can kill it.

Killing a Guyver soul does nothing, it can be regenerated in a new host. Much like Sho's now 3rd body? Oh and 4th brain? Whatever Soul Sho had died against Enzyme. He was reduced to a memory store and cells we know have some genetic memory (the Guyver clone knew where Sho's school was).

 

[Shin Mefilas]

OK Sully met you half way and say yes is Sho did destroy the earth he may IT's avatar. But Sho will never do that and starveing IT is not a proven way to kill it as it was suppossed to have died in the 80's but has survived despite no further feeding taking place in Derry since the Loser's club faced it. The real kicker is that even if you destroyed IT's avatar on earth it would likely still extist. A number of beings from King's fiction, like the turtle, haved supposidly died yet come back.

It is not a clown.....

IT's a peice of a cosmic entity that can be hurt or dinished but never proven to be truly killable in any fastion.

As for the regrowing a soul, even if that was possible, becuse the mind and the soul are not always one and the same, that still leave Sho's body  vulnerable for a time and if it can strip him of a soul then it can learn all it need to know about killing him when it devours it. 

 

Its a war of atrishion that Sho will never fight to the finish unless he acts totally out of character and IT has both the time and the tools to get the job done eventually.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Sully]

If you remove the soul as you put it, IT has opened a can of worms that even the Creators couldn't contain. The Out of Control Guyver under the command of the control medal.

If Sho and Exceed... well that would be an nasty quick fight in Exceed mode.

[Shin Mefilas]

2 minutes ago, Sully said:

If you remove the soul as you put it, IT has opened a can of worms that even the Creators couldn't contain. The Out of Control Guyver under the command of the control medal.

Thats an entire thread of its own lol.

[Larz Zahn]

IT being an being a cosmic God is news to me. My cousin and sone friends at work have read the novel, and they never mentioned it being an entity, my cousin just says it's a alien who uses fear and psychic abilities. 

Sully, have you read the novel any?

I'm on the fence about a Guyver immunity to telepathy.  We know that the Guyver unit 0 freed it's slave host from the mental commands of the creators... but did it block the telepathy itself? Keep in mind that the creators are telepathic, the relic was using telepathy comms, and the creators use guyvers aa well.

[Shin Mefilas]

1 hour ago, Larz Zahn said:

IT being an being a cosmic God is news to me. My cousin and sone friends at work have read the novel, and they never mentioned it being an entity, my cousin just says it's a alien who uses fear and psychic abilities. 

Sully, have you read the novel any?

I'm on the fence about a Guyver immunity to telepathy.  We know that the Guyver unit 0 freed it's slave host from the mental commands of the creators... but did it block the telepathy itself? Keep in mind that the creators are telepathic, the relic was using telepathy comms, and the creators use guyvers aa well.

That dose not surpise me. not to speak ill of anyone but I have talked to a number of people who have read the book and clearly missed or not understood parts of it. For example many wrongly assume IT is an alien spider despite the fact the story goes out of its way to tell you thats not the case. 

IT and many other King entities like the turtle and the Red King come from the Macroverse also known as Todash Space, the dimensionless nothingness that exists between alternate universes in the metaverse. 

During the final battle with IT, Bill's soul is sent flying through space at immpossible speeds as IT tires to drag him out of the universe. When they encounter the turtle it is so large that it actually takes some time to get by it, infact its so large it has galaxies swimming in its toenails. But dont take my word for it....

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Larz Zahn]

What's chud?

[Sully]

Everything in fiction has limitations. Including IT, it is defeated in our Universe by kids / young adults.

No matter what IT truly is in that world of Stephen king in the end it's Avatar / Existence in this universe is something you can win against. Without a Guyver armour. You and a group of people team up IT is gone for another 27 years at the very least. Note there was not Turtle in the movie, nor any mention of it. You put a Guyver'd Human Host, it is taking out that Avatar. 

Even if IT can scare a Guyver host, it's illusions were overcome by humans. And you're all still forgetting the power of the control medal. A Control Medal and a human brain are a scary combination. Quick enough to shoot a bullet out of the air before it hits the target. Combine that with the head sensors. That cold blooded machine plugged directly into the human brain isn't going to sit back while some other alien parasite attacks it's host brain.  IT depends on too many abstract things to win, mostly it depends on fear and keeping the target in a panic state. A Guyver will not stay that way long enough and has the regenerative powers to over come it.

IF you're on about Sho as he currently is in the comics or worse Agito (by himself or with Sho) it would be obliterated the moment he came after them.

 

 

 

 

[Larz Zahn]

I don't think it'll be a one sided fight like that, but I'm leaning on the side of a Guyver host winning. Maybe not killing an entity, but definitely defeating its avatar extention.  Sho alone has the strength of will now and the self confidence to resist any illusion or spiritual attack, (the soul thing). Bill did it, so I'm confident that sho could. I'm not sure about just any guyver host, the soul attack would have to depend on the individual character.

And since we are merging universes, the turtle should back sho, like he did bill. I believe that's what you said, godzilla? The turtle backed bill? As sho is a hero character, like bill, he should be given the same backing.

 

Let's focus a bit on the Guyver portion a bit. We had a ton of IT info now lol!

So, would the Guyvers protection of mental control help a host in this sense? And when? All times or when the unit is equipped? I mentioned before it's my opinion it blocks the control part but not the telepathy itself? 

[Sully]

Even if IT can trick a Guyver the issue is the Guyver isn't killable to IT easily. Outside the panic that is set in a Guyver is pretty hard to kill and a lot of it's defences happen automatically and are pushed to the host by the control medal to fit the situation. 

So for example, IT tries to fool the Guyver and it can transmit images fooling the human host. IT's problem is then the Guyver Unit itself. The Control medal will not be fooled and it will not fear. So while the human eyes are seeing something crazy in front of it, the head sensors will be telling the host something different. If IT goes in to try and eat the Guyver I do not see the host sitting back and not striking back. IT taking the host's SOUL will not stop a Guyver. It didn't stop the losers getting the red headed girl back either who awoke with a kiss in the movie.

[Shin Mefilas]

Here were we get complicated. In a mixed universe the turtle would back Sho, but Sho is at on disadvantage he's an adult and presumably alone. The children channeled the power of the turtle so effectively because they are children and have been run down by the harshness of life. The ritual of chud is an anti demon ritual Bill read about, it involves biting the demons touge and telling jokes till one of you laughs. It would never have worked unless Bill, or more importantly all the losers beloved it would. The fact they are together plays a part as the 7 of them, littaraly the magic number combined their power agents it. This is also why an inhaler can burn it and silver can to. As adults and with only 5 of them the losers almost lost to IT despite the fact It was still weakened from their last battle. Sho's willalone is not enough, he would need everyone's help and they must believe.

 

also is is not all illusions, it uses them but when it shapeshifts IT is very much real. It could take the form of his father, aptom or a zoalord and it will be as physical as the real thing. For example the blood in Beverlys bathroom is real, it just uses its power to make it the adults cannot see it.

even it's maddening true self is real, a physical horror that the unit will also consider an real. And again the madness was only undone because Ben believed it would and the other children's wills and power helped. Alone he would have done nothing.

Also the turtle is in the film, or rather its presence. As in the book characters see or interact with turtle images and such. The turtle is part of the movie the creator just kept it subtle.

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Shin Mefilas]

Thinking about it the control metal is in just as much danger from the dead lights a Sho. If it is capable of recognising IT in its true from then it could shut down as it, like the human mind, breaks down because it is trying to register a thing it simple cannot comprehend. 

 

What boils down to is that alone Sho is fighting a loosening battle. No beam, blade or mega smasher is going to make a lasting impression without both willpower but also the belief needed to channel the turtles power. Even then one human is not enough. He'd need his friends to help him. Then as long as they can all do at least some level of the same thing they have a chance of really beating IT. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Sully]

The Control Medal isn't life as IT knows it. It's closer to a machine an is referred to as uncaring an unemotional numerous times (like when it butchers Fumio Fukamachi). You're grasping at straws if you think it will be effected by anything it is capable of. 

[Shin Mefilas]

I'm not grasping at anything Sully, I'm speculating.

Also It in its true nature is a cosmic horror that exists between realities and is a being beyond the 4 demotions we humans live in. It as the power pull a soul from earth at impossible speeds through the infinity of the universe to the place between. What I'm trying to get across here is that to you and me it would be like trying to look a. 6 sided triangle. Such a thing dose not exist in our reality and our mind could not cope with such a thing. A machine is even more vulnerable as they lack any kind of psychological defence to back them up. This is why they can fall prey to loops and logical errors like say "if I told you I always spoke the truth, then told you the last thing I said was a lie, would you believe me". 

When faced with its true self, they guyver would be trying to process something that dose not conform to any logical pattern or shape, what is an impossible. If such a thing crumpled the human mind, not because of fear but due to the simple fact that the human brain cannot even begin to process it, how would the guyver, a machine created by the same beings as human, begin to cope with that same impossible image?

IT may not have ever encountered something like the guyver in the multiverse that surrounds it, but it is something truly beyond any life. 

 

Edit: however after reading everything and thinking on it I'll agree that Sho could beat it, but not alone. Sho as a human with the help of his friends has the will needed to fight back and they have the potential to channel the turtles power and beat it.

 

Alone we have agreed that Sho will run have a problem with the dead lights. So it's up to the guyver alone. If they guyver cannot process The image of its true form, a sheer cindradicting impossible form beyond anything found in the universe, they guyver is at risk to. If it can somehow get passed that it is not Sho and so cannot channel anything from the turtle. That means that it's only weapon it has that could work are the black holes created by exceed. But if it dose use them to will kill many, many people which would either mentally break Sho if he recovered and if he didn't leave the universe faceing a now out of control exceed, mean while IT has lost a small part of itself which is a setbsck but it has other options and time. So it can just kick back and watch as exceed goes on rampage or a broken Sho.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Godzilla (2017)

[Sully]

The problem for IT is the same problem faced by the Creators with the tool they created. It's that it can't affect the control medal when active and attached to a weaponised host (humans), it is simply that it doesn't matter if IT can send images to the C-Medal, the C-Medal will simply ignore it as it doesn't understand it and never will. 

The Unit G control medal is effectively programmed for it's existence. It has many aspects of it's programming which centres around control of the organism, host protection, energy management, regeneration, storage of the host mind and so on. We know this can be updated too. Guyver 3's control medal held information from interfacing with the Gigantic Armour Sho built. It still retained this information so when it linked with the Control Medals from Arizona Agito was able to trigger the Gigantic Process and grow a new Cocoon and armour from them using his body as a core and his control as the provider of the information required to the control medals of the relic. But this updating process was with systems under the control of the Uranus. But never once has a Control medal being inferred with by an outside source other than other Creator controlled technology.

Now doing this vs topics you've to be fair to what is there information wise. As much as you respect that IT can inspire fear you've to respect that the Creators would not have designed a system that allowed enemy forces to take over. They'd billons of years to perfect this tech and brought it with them from another world while they sat on Earth waiting from us to grow pre a time long before the dinosaurs (when life on earth was at it's beginning stages per the lore of the story.  Both IT and the Unit G are both incredibly ancient. They'd not leave that technology open for something like it to take control. Even more so when the Creators themselves AND the Central Federation (the beings they reported too and were part of that also used Unit G technology) were not capable of coming up with an idea to save the Earth project.

To suggest otherwise just basically completely rewrites what Guyver is about. Hell even the name Guyver. Out of Control. 

 

[Shin Mefilas]

Ok I think we can all agree at this point.