What is the limit to human physical potential?

[*zeo]

Here's a subject of some controversy as to what are humans capable of?

Let's start with strength. Usually when referencing how strong a character is we use multiples of man power but not everyone agrees on the figures.

The predominant figure used, like in comics, etc, is that one man equals the ability to lift, with arms fully extended over one's head, a mass of up to 800 pounds.

The actual world record for this type of lifting is just a little over 700 something pounds.

Another real world example is the present record for a squat, basically having the weigh bar over your shoulders as you squat and then stand back up, which is 1008 pounds. That's a half ton supported by just one guy.

So what do you think a human is capable of doing?

[McAvoy]

Roughly that more or less. It also depends greatly on size and length of arms. For instance shorter people can do better with squats because the weights are not traveling as far.

But regardless, there is a limit to the muscles themselves as well as bones and tendons. The tendons are usually the ones which go first, ripping from the bones. Then it's the bones which can break under pressure. Muscles though are most common to rip because inexperienced people will lift things wrong, biut experienced weight lifters really do not have a problem with this.

[largo]

Well I think that a human is only limited by our own minds so I guess thats our limit. If you really think about it humans can do near superhuman things on will power alone. And since most guyver fans know that the guyver is controled by the hosts will. Then wouldn't the strangth of the guyver be determined by the will of the host?

Just think about it for a little and it will make alot of sence.

[*zeo]

Actually bones have different breaking points determined not only by how hard they are hit but also in what way they are hit.

For example the structure of human bones is designed to obsorb impacts by snapping interconnections at the molecular level. So we can take a hit once as the bone absorbs the impact with these molecular fiber like breaks but if hit the same way again before the bone can recover and the bone will snap fairly easily. Alternatively pressure can be applied over time and basically use up the bone's ability to absorb impacts and the bone will snap.

Kinda like taking a group of sticks and applying pressure. As a group the sticks are hard to break but if you apply enough energy the sticks will start breaking one by one until the whole group just snaps.

It's also dependant on how much energy is absorbed at a given time since each bone has a specific capacity before it snaps and can only absorb so much force at once. For some bones it can take as little as 3 pounds of pressure on a single spot to break the bone.

Since our bones are primarily designed to withstand gravity, pressure at a non-virtical angle is a lot more effective than at a virtical angle for which the bones are optimized to resist.

So how the body breaks down under external physical stress is not always consistant compared to the other tissues of the body which break down at a more consistant rate.

Muscles themselves are essentially scar tissue, they will astrophy with non-use and you need to tear them to grow more muscles. But of course there are tears and then there are tears so over doing it can lead to crippling damage instead of beneficial muscle growth. Muscle builders of course know their limitations better than most so are less likely to go too far beyond their limit. Though mistakes do occassionally happen even to them.

Overall though McAvoy is correct that the physical limits of the human body put our strength limit to the range of the examples I gave in my first post.

Though Largo is right that our own minds has a lot to do with it there are limits due to what our bodies are capable of. Even the strongest of wills for example can't make a human body lift a mountain for example.

There are extreme cases like a mother lifting a car off her child for instance but in such cases the human body is only temporarily going beyond its normal limits. In many such cases the strain of going beyond normal human limits can kill the person performing the act.

So though humans can be capable of amazing feets, it comes at a cost. So I would put the average peak human strength as what has been indicated above.

But humans aren't just strength alone so lets consider some other factors like how fast can a human run?

[McAvoy]

The fastest man that ever ran was 30 MPH. But then again, that's years of training. Essentially a human does not have enough time on thie Earth to be both the strongest man on Earth, and the fastest man on Earth. This is referred to as the James Bond effect. Basically what you see James Bond as doing like hand gliding, surfing, driving, and all those unique abilities that James Bond can do, cannot be done in the real world. Because you have to take years of training to do it, then keep it up because practice does make perfect, but it also keeps you up at that perfect state as well.

[*zeo]

Yes, 30 MPH is actually considered the fastest a human can run.

Though it is essentially true that a typical human can't excell in multiple physical performance fields. There are people who can achieve an above average in all fields. So the James Bond effect is not exactly impossible just extremely hard to achieve. Remember James Bond may be good in many things but he was never was the strongest or fastest.

The only things that would be impossible, at least for now, is a Captain America effect. Since he is suppose to be at peak in all fields of physical performance. Ditto with characters like Batman, etc. Who achieve both speed and strength well beyond the normal average. It would take a genetically perfected human to achieve that level of performance across the board.

Another record is the fastest kick was clocked at 75 MPH and it takes 1/10 of a second to throw a punch.

Does anyone else know any other speed facts of human performance?

Edited November 11, 2005 by Guest

[McAvoy]

Well, in Rocky IV the Russian dude can throw a punch in excess of a ton. But that was a movie, I don't know if anyone in real life has done that yet.

[*zeo]

Actually yes, a human can throw a punch over a ton in force. But remember this is only for a punch and concentrates a lot of force into a short and concentrated impact. Also that is near the peak of human ability.

For example leverage is a very significant factor. Consider some Guiness records like. . .

Furthest Plane Pull By An Individual

David Huxley pulled a Boeing 747-400, weighing 187 tonnes (184 tons), a distance of 91 m (298.5 ft) in 1 minute and 27.7 seconds on October 15, 1997 at Sydney, Australia. David has now retired from the strongman circuit. He currently owns and runs an event management and public relations company called Tartan Warriors, based in Sydney, Australia.

Heaviest Car Balanced On Head

It’s death defying, it’s daunting and it’s downright dangerous. But England's John Evans balanced a 159.6 kg (352 lb) Mini on his head for 33 seconds at The London Studios, England, on May 24, 1999.

Dangling cars from his head is all in a day’s work for professional ‘Head Balancer’ Evans. He’s balanced people, books and beers, but the car’s by far the most deadly trick – a strong wind and it could be the end of the road for John.

John’s a gigantic guy. He’s 2 meters (6 ft 1inch) tall and weighs in at 155.7 kg (343 lb). But it’s his 60.9cm (24-inch) neck that’s the only part of his body strong enough to take such immense weights. So the slightest slip, trip or nudge could send him tumbling to a crushing death, as his arms wouldn’t be able to cope with the load!

This big fella has broken 25 records in 11 categories and is going for more.

Heaviest Train Pulled

It can be a strain taking the train, but we're not talking about overcrowded carriages. Strongman Juraj Barbaric had to pull out all the stops to drag 20 freight cars filled with scrap iron down the track. He hauled the weighty wagons then promptly collapsed in an exhausted heap! He pulled the 1,000-tonne (984.2-ton) train a distance of 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in) along a railway track at Kosice, Slovakia on June 1, 1999. It was the heaviest train pulled!

Most One Finger Push Ups

Paul Lynch performed 124 consecutive one finger push ups at the Hippodrome, Leicester Square, London, UK on April 21, 1992.

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

Note that the adrenal gland also helps too. When you're in danger, or you're fighting and you get excited, adrenaline sort of aids in actual preformance, though it does take its toll on the human body. But, even without it, the human body is plenty amazing without worrying about how much train you can pull.

Thoguh some feats as seen in movies are somewhat feasible, most are impossible. But in terms of limits, it depends on the context. Yes, I know it's physical and not psychological or emotional, but you also have to consider more variables. Yes height, weight, gender, age and such are included, but what kind of situation are you in? How much adrenaline is flowing through you? How much have you practiced, or studied? How often you you do the paritcular activity? A person who is fighting for the very first time in their lives, would have little potential in extreme conditions, but it also depends on how they preform too. A person who has had several years of fighting, though not necessarily doing it often, but still sparring may have a much better potential under very extreme condition. Again, so many variables, it's somewhat difficult to understand our potential.

[*zeo]

True but we can document what people have done and come to an estimate of what is possible under optimum conditions. Variable aside we are looking for what is the limits of human potential. At least under normal conditions.

In extreme conditions humans can perform beyond their normal limits. Like a mother lifitng a car off her child. Though in most cases such strain can kill the person as they push their bodies beyond what it can normally take.

For example, my father has had at least two instances of temporary enhanced strength. One time was when he was fighting this guy near a train yard and then grabbed his wrist with one hand and threw him like a rag doll into a pile of cardboard. The other time was when a guy tried to mug him with a knife, grabbing him from behind and my father grabbed his arm and threw him over his shoulder a good ten feet before he hit the ground. The guy sprang up, took one look at my dad and ran. Note, this was extremely rare and in normal cases this never happened and he won or lost fights as you would expect for someone of his size and built.

My dad is only 5' 9", weighs at most 150 pounds, and is thin built. Though he has always had springy muscles. When he was a kid he could jump over peoples head with a good running start, stepping off their heads in the process. So coud jump up a good 5 feet off the ground. He can also knock most people out with one punch. Though I gather its not from the force but how he hits them, since I once saw him hit this really big guy, after the punch the guy shook his head like he just got slapped and then collapsed.

Though it's good to have friends, when my father was overseas when he served in the army, he got beatup by some navy guys during a bar fight in Thailand. He woke up the next day to see the navy guys in casts. Seems the natives, the guys who taxi you around by pulling seat carts and run you where you need to go, who my father had befriended hadn't taken kindly to their friend being beaten up. The sailors even apologized.

Note they got beaten kick boxer style and you could see the impressions of their feet in the sailors bodies. For guys who make their living running around pulling people around I definitely don't ever want to find out how hard they can kick.

[McAvoy]

Well, Sailors always get in barfights just like a particular sailor on this board. I believe in Thailand is where you can go to kickboxing matches and even volunteer yourself to go up there. I know a few stories where Marines with their thick headedness go up there and beat the crap out of themselves.

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

Human durability and strength, even our will to live can easily compete with other animals of the animal kingdom. Though often our strength is measured under optimum conditions, such conditions rarely exist, even for human beings. Rare as well are the high end extreme conditions. Yet the human body is perhaps the most unique and the most intriguing of all animal bodies simly because we can endure so much, though other animals if placed under the right conditions can repeat what a human can in durability and strength porportional to the body, it is very rare in the non human world.

Perhaps this is a testament to our society, to our world, but maybe not. After all, our world spirals out of control, becoming even more polarized, and the conditions under which we live become more extreme each day.

In the end, our strength is nothing to laugh at. Nor are the conditions under which we produce any results.

[largo]

Zeo I agree with you and all but what about the guyver it's controled by will power so wouldn't the strangth of the mind play a big part of how much stranght some one could get out of it?

[*zeo]

Yes, but the same can be said of us as we are. Human will power goes a lot towards what humans are physically capable of. Like it is possible for a normal man to bend a steel bar, he'll just have to block out the pain that our bodies normally use to tell us doing something like that is a bad idea for your health.

People in extreme life and death conditions have done things like chew off their own wrist in order to survive.

So will is definitely part of the equation but even the strongest will can't make us do anything that our bodies are incapable of doing.

[largo]

On the idea of survival wouldn't the self-defence mode be exactly what we were talking about how the will to survive can enhance our stranght because in the show when the guyver's self-defence mode activtes his stranght is enhanced like in ep. 6 of the orginal show how sho goes on to take out 2 of the remaining 3 hyper zoanoids.

[*zeo]

Guyver strength isn't really enhanced in self defense mode, they just don't react to pain or any other feelings that would impeed the host.

[McAvoy]

Well in that case, Guyver 1 was in self defense mode and fully utilized the Guyver's abilities since without a mind, the Guyver wouldn't be restrained. Agito is less restrained than Sho is, but he's still only human and does have his own limits because he's still basing himself off his own limits.

Humans can achieve so much more because we can push oursevles beyond what we can physically achieve. For instance there's the difference between a guy who will run until he's tired and stop, then you got the guy who will push himself even though he's tired and out of breath to go as far as he needs.

Myself as an example. On a normal PT Day (Physical Training for the Navy) I will only push myself so that I won't catch hell. But on PRT (Physical Readiness Test) I push myself beyond what I normally achieve on PT days so the fastest run I can achieve, the better my evals. So I normally run the 1.5 mile on a PT Day is 10 minutes and on PRT days I run a 1.5 mile slightly over 8 minutes. Hell, if I beat my CO, I get a full week off for free. But he runs it in 6 minutes....

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

Physical limitations only serve to keep us from what could potentially be fatal. If you were to take off some or all of that pain, but retain what the action does to your body, you do not know when you're hurting yourself and an act of bravery suddenly becomes your deathbed. A Guyver whether in self defense mode or not, does not necessarily break off those barriers, though I suppose under certain circumstances and in certain cases that would be the case. Most living, sentient beings can and will feel pain at some point. That does not mean nonsentient life does not feel pain. They just may not be able to show it visually. A cat or dog will certainly let you know when it's hurting whther mewing or whimpering. Humans have physical limitations only to limit their harm to themselves, even under dire circumstances. Why do you think after a heavy fight you'll end up feeling the pain after the adrenaline goes out? You've either gotten physically hit, or you've strained a muscle, which injures and sets back a lot of developments that should be taking place.

[McAvoy]

In a middle of fight, you hardly will ever feel pain unless it breaks your concentration. I know from experience after a fight, that I had gashes from the fight but didn't realize it until after the fight was over, and then I didn't know until I found myself bleeding.

[Warbyrd13]

No I believe that the host hinders the unit. From the animie to manga Sho has had problems in fighting but when he isn't in control and the Guyver is fully in control then we see a engine of destruction. This is just my opionin on how the unit works and what I have seen.

[Thunder Demon1472669266]

From the animie to manga Sho has had problems in fighting but when he isn't in control and the Guyver is fully in control then we see a engine of destruction.

Note that the unit also uses as a reference for a few things, the host's own mind and body. Also, the personality can also hinder or aid the Unit, pending on what you did as a job prior to finding/recieving the Unit.

[*zeo]

No I believe that the host hinders the unit. From the animie to manga Sho has had problems in fighting but when he isn't in control and the Guyver is fully in control then we see a engine of destruction. This is just my opionin on how the unit works and what I have seen.

One exception though was the second battle with Aptom, Sho willed the mega Smashers open since he couldn't use his hands which had been damaged with acid. This was an act of will of the host.

It should also be considered that the Unit can't be creative so the host can use more advance tactics than the unit is capable of doing in self defense mode.

But the question of the topic is more on human limits than Guyver limits. So does anyone else have any other factors of human physical limits to discuss what humans are capable of so we can have a better picture to compare with both zoaforms and the Guyvers with?