WAY off...

[Guest]

I was just reading a little through the data files on the GWOTG site. One in particular, Zagam, I've been reading says that at times he can accelerate to far beyond the speed of light if he wanted. So much so, it goes to the tune of 20,000 times. Now, this is all off theory, obviously, but holds true to some basic ideals of reality and physics.

Saying, even in an unobtrusive environment such as space, wouldn't speeds even rivaling the speed of light allow a single mass of matter as small as a pebble to inflict damages FAR beyond kilotons. I'm saying something to the tune of megatons aor even more with the mass of some of the more heavily massed units.

You all were talking about some units who could, if bonded with certain units certain ways ( Alk bonding with a W-Unit ) being able to destroy a planet. Well, with that much power/weight magnified by the sheer speed they could annihalate large-class stars, provided they could withstand the immense shock ensuing such an action.

This is only a speculation of mine. Correct me if I'm wrong?

[Sully]

What was way off was the size of your avatar. Read the rules section of the board next time.

You'll get the right back sometime later to have one again.

[Guest]

Understandable. Whatever. I won't sweat it. I was just trying to be different.

Anyway, I'm still open to criticism or responses about the prior subject.

[Guest]

Just to point it out, if something reaches the speed of light, it becomes light. So, it would be impossible to actually travel faster than light. And since it is light, there wouldn't be alll that desructive force you were describing. But, this is fan-fiction, so physics don't matter^^

[Guest]

Of course it does, but then again that is all a theoretical speculation. Since a lot of this goes beyond mere theories, and it never says whether or not ( that I've seen ) that the units transcend into light when traveling that fast ( especially when in obtrusive environments, 'cause they use shielding to prevent the natural destruction the friction of the atmosphere causes ).

Oh well, just an idea. Thanks. Just tryin' to think outside the box for a second or two.

[Thunder Demon]

Here's part of the thing. You can go FTL. It's all about relativity. You could be going haf the speed of light in the other and an object could be going the opposite direction half the speed of light, and you'd appear to be going FTL.

Again, you could be standing still and something could be going faster than light past you. Our "speeds" are based off of how fast the Earth is turning. So, if an ant is on a rotating orange turning once every minute and the ant doesn't move from it's spot, the ant's still rotating. If ant's moving as fast as the orange in the same direction, the ant's actual speed is one rotation every thirty seconds, and if the ant's moving the same speed as the orange is in the reverse direction, the ant isn't "moving", however, it is still expending energy to move in the opposite direction to remain in the same point in space, and in a way, it's still moving.

But, physics plays an iportant role, just not as large. Thus, FTL also can become a reality in writing (which is more fun anyway).

[Guest]

Makes sense. I used to be VERY HEAVY into sci-fi writing/role-playing a few years ago. I kinda dropped off when all my friends did but I'm looking to pick it back up. I didn't take into account your idea, though, which is very interesting.

I guess while my idea has been recognized, adding it to the GWOTG ideas would throw things for a loop. Probably not a good idea. It was a mere suggestion and thought I wanted to voice and get all of your opinions. Still, I think my ideas have some validation.

This might be a little off subject, but would any of the Moderators have a problem if I created my own fan-fic/role-play story based on Guyvers using those fore mentioned thoughts? Naturally, I will place it in the proper areas of the site and so forth.

[Guest]

Yes, but we were talking about a single object, moving through empty space.

Yeah, everything's better in fiction^^

[*zeo]

Actually Zagam's abilities correspond to theoretical physics of what can be possible if most present theories are correct. The speed of light is only a limitation if you insist on going through normal space. There is no limit for the movement of space itself, which is the basis for such sci-fi FTL propulsion such as Star Trek's Warp Drive. There is also time dilation which would alter the speed of light in respect to the rest of the universe. Hyper Space which allows alterations of constants and/or altering the actual distance traveled per unit time.

So generally speaking when we refer to something moving at FTL speed it is not traveling through normal space. So interaction with normal space matter is usually avoided or very limited.

[Guest]

So, the likes of W'Kar are travelling FTL in hyperspace? Well, then he wouldn't be able to smash into planets because upon re-entering normal space, he'll be subject to normal space physics.

[Guest]

Ah, so he uses time dilation? Didn't realize that.

So, what you're saying is that if they did use FTL travel they could easily amplify the speed in respect to those around with time dilation, as they would, in their form of time and reality, percieve or 'track' the movement at such speed. But what about the theory that at light speed your moving so fast that you're actually tracking backwards through 'time' to some extent? Would that not affect?

Example:

Anubis selects an area of space around Guyver #1 and begins to alter the flow of time. Time is slowed, but only for Guyver #1. Anubis moves at the speed of light about the Guyver and appears infront of him.

Meanwhile outside the area of dilated space-time, Guyver #2 watches uanble to help.

Guyver #1 sees Anubis.

- End Example -

So, my question now is... even though time bent to the will of Anubis, wouldn't his actions at FTL be affected and thus, even with slowed time for Guyver #1, Anubis would go BACK in time by a few seconds?

Secondly, how would someone outside the phenom such as Guyver #2 view this Event Horizon of sorts? Would it simply see Anubis flicker beyond his range of perception and appear? Or would it be possible for the Guyver #2 be capable of noticing how Anubis phased from that plane of time to appear in the past, thus altering the future?

... ^^ If that makes ANY sense and someone can answer that, I'd greatly appreciate it. If not, I'll try and clarify it a bit more.

[*zeo]

Time is one factor for FTL but it is not the only means of FTL travel. Also actual time travel requires certain conditions to be met before that occurs.

The behavior you are refering to, moving back through time, is typical of something like a theoretical particle called a tachyon.

Generally speaking though a read on basic relativity before we continue this conversation would help.

Things like the fact if you have two objects moving towards each other at the speed of light would in fact not see anything moving faster than light from each object's perspective. So Thunder Demon's example would not produce a FTL visual effect. Space and Time are dynamic and a lot more complex than conventional wisdom would lead you to believe. When an object approaches the speed of light time slows down for it.

Generally speaking though, with the Anubis example given, G1 would see Anubis appear before him before the image of him, from his previous position, vanished from his point of view. So in that sense yes it would appear Anubis went back in time but it would only be an optical illusion brought on by Anubis incredible speed and the time dilation. To G2 Anubis would only appear to travel at light speed, unless he time dilates himself as well, and G1 would appear either very slow or frozen from his perspective.

[Guest]

Alright I will take a stab at this. P. Absolute your original question refers to a kinetic energy reaction correct. Well in that instance you are right the speed an object is traveling is dirctly related to the force it exerts, that and the Mass of the object.

[Guest]

So, does anyone know a formula to equate the final force exerted/transfered to another object upon impact at speeds of or near FTL? I'm sure mere kilotons aren't quite high enough when an object that weighs some 3,000 lbs ( as some of the units do ) collides with another solid object and speeds even just below light speed ( as to prevent the theoretical ascension into a stream of light ).

And then, could a Guyver not use their Gravity Orb to increase the pull of gravity in a select area upon the time of impact to increase their weight, thusly increasing the amount of force behind the punch? From what I remember, Guyvers can control how the gravity affects the unit itself so a 1.5 ton beast isn't stomping through a structure destroying the floor with foot-sized craters or sending ground shaking echoes as it approaches a target with a sense of remote stealth.

[Guest]

I hope I'm just in a frame of mind that I'm is interpreting what others are saying wrong, because it almost looks like some people who are supposed to know about relativity are stating things that go against some of its basic concepts.

All the relativistic equations you are interested in.

An illustration of time dilation in relativistic situations

Now all you need is the skill to actually make sense of all that.

[Guest]

No no, we are mostly correct, well as correct as these theories. My friend and I enjoy quizzing our physics teacher on stuff like this and a lot of the ideas said here, I've heard from him before.

[*zeo]

Don't worry about it Genetic, FOG3 did provide a useful link with mostly laymen examples of Einsteins theory. However, Relativity is only part of the story. Many of the FTL examples discussed so far are loop holes to the speed of light limit that Einstein himself left open as possibilities. Not to mention we have not even touched on Quantum and String theory.

The links are good for a start though, even though they don't provide complete explaination or example types.

[Thunder Demon]

Even just one object flying through space close to LS or even at or above LS, will most likely explode from the force of the crunch. It doesn't very well matter if it is organic or otherwise.

Take two cars facing each other. For starters, at roughly 10 MPH (yes, I'll be using the English System. Sorry), that's a fairly decent fender bender (think of it as one moving 20 MPH). Doubling that, say, a fender bender plus decent damage to the hood, grill, and possibly some components inside. Double that, you have engine damage, radiator damage, possible steering column damage. Double that and above, you're looking at a wrecked car for the most part. That's not taking into account any airbags inflating amd amy crunch bars in the car (like some foreign cars).

That's simple car damage w/o breaking at speeds WAY less than an airliner in flight or pretty much any manmade thing in flight.

[*zeo]

Even just one object flying through space close to LS or even at or above LS, will most likely explode from the force of the crunch. It doesn't very well matter if it is organic or otherwise.

True, impacts of sufficient velocities would cause E=MC^2 factor to take effect and the mass of the impacting objects to start breaking down into raw energy. Though not as efficient as an actual nuke, the energy release can still be quite substantial.

A factor we use regularly is particle accelerators, smashing atoms together at near light speed so they'll basically explode and we get to see what subatomic particles they were made of. Also to show how matter reacts in high energy states to prove or invalidate string, etc theories.

As for Power Absolute's question about using the Gravity controller to increase effective mass before impact, suffice it to say at near relativistic speed the gravity controller will not have a significant effect. Except for some possibilities left open due to the fact we don't actually know what will happen when an object actually reaches light speed.

Depending on which string theory is most valid the object may convert into pure energy in the form of light, it may get pushed into a higher dimension and appear to the rest of us as light, it may cease to exist, it may exit the universe as we know it, it could collapse into a black hole. We frankly don't know the answer for the same reason we haven't yet produced a working unified field theory. Relativity only tells us what happens up to the point an object reaches near light speed. The math breaks down for actual light speed except to show the behavior of light.

Maybe after we invent the math for quantum gravity will we be able to give a definite answer but not till then.

BTW, speaking of black holes, check this out

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996151