Guyver Gravitational Control

[Guest]

How high could a standard guyver lift it self above the Earth (Just vertically, no horizontal movement.)?

[Sully]

To anywhere it wanted to go. A Guyver is effectivly a fancy space suit. So if the Guyver wanted it could fly to Mar's, though need of food and rest would probably come into play long before it got there. Speed wise it could get to the moon and back without too much worry. Mar's would be too far away unless it teleported using the Gigantic Cocoon.

[Guest]

If a guyver had enough power to speed it self through the solar system in this fashion with its gravity controller shouldn't it be able to generate a more powerful pressure canon, or control the gravitational field around a person?

[Sully]

Ok offical Guyver responce:

You one lost person.... A Guyver can fly and fire the pressure cannon at the same time. But a Guyver can only fly at one top speed. In space without resistance from air that would be a little faster. A Guyver "should" be able to make it to the moon.

Problem with if a Guyver can do it does not go to IF the controller can do it. But if the Guyver can stay bio-boosted long enough to do it. A Guyver can't stop along the way in outerspace turn off the unit and have a nap and a bacon & eggg roll with a Coke now can it?

Fan-Fic Guyver responce

Depends how you made up your Guyver or whoes character you pic. Basically if they can over come the food and rest problem they can go whereever they want. Also ability to teleport helps.

[Guest]

Ok, here's where I'm having a problem. If a standard guyver can take itself anywhere in the solar system (I'm working on a purely theoretical basis as to whether the unit is capable of performing it) it needs to push against other gravational bodies in space to move; so if it is capable of reaching Mars at some point it will leave the gravatational field of Earth. So when it crosses this threshold, it may not be under Mars's influence but the suns and if it can push against that it must possess greater power than we've ever seen.

*Starts rubbing temples cause hasn't thought that hard in a while.*

Sorry if I'm being irritating.

[Guest]

Well the best way to do it is a slingshot move, if the guyver can build enough speed. it can go as fast as the acceleration. after that your speed will always increase so there is no limit to the speed of a guyver in space. the only downfall is trying to stop and the fact that the host might not live the several months of space travel physically and mentally. Other then that you can have unlimited range.

[Guest]

The only problem to useing the gravity controller to fly in space is simple. A regular guyver can't breath in space. That's sort of difficult with no oxygen. I'm sure the gravity controller would continue to provide a field for it's gravity organs to manipulate... but said organs might get a little starved.

I've heard that the gigantic armor can carry it's own supply though. An air tank. How much oxygen it can store I don't know, but that probebly helps. Entering a meditative state while in space to use less oxygen would probebly help too, but let's face it, so few people are that capable (I doubt any ravaging warrior would have that much discipline).

[*zeo]

Course that brings up the subject of how a Guyver responds to lack of oxygen since we can all agree the host won't actually die but we don't know whether the host can continue to function consciously and/or whether the Unit's Self Defense mode is intelligent enough to get itself back to a breathable atmosphere.

Sith Guyver, the Guyver doesn't have to push against other gravitational bodies. Your concept of pushing off only applies when one resists gravity. The Gravity Control Orb controls gravity for propulsion so only needs to be within a gravitational field, which exists wherever positive energy/matter exists. It uses gravity itself for propulsion so it can only be effected by Gravity if it either lets it or if the gravitational field exceeds its ability to control. You only need enormous power to escape a gravitational field if you do it all at once. Overcoming the Sun's gravity only factors in if you want to leave the Solar System.

[Guest]

Isn't the digestive tract supposed to shut down when boosted? I thought the dimensional energy was feeding it instead so why would food be a problem?

[Guest]

The gravity controller is siphoning energy from the boost dimension, yes. But that energy is being fed to the armor through the hosts bioenergy. When the host gets tired, less energy can be channeled through. That's how Takaya explains it. (some of us think the energy Takaya is refering to is ADP molecules)

So in theory, if one molecule of ADP existed, the armor could still have enough energy to function, but since only channeling a little at a time, it could only do a little at a time... like rebuilding the body from just a scrap of cells.

[Sully]

Isn't the digestive tract supposed to shut down when boosted? I thought the dimensional energy was feeding it instead so why would food be a problem?

Because a Guyver has to rest. Any time a Guyver has a major battle it rests for ages. Simply that means a Guyver does not have unlimited stamina. The only real way to recharge is rest without the unit on and normally the host faints. That is after a major battle. But the top speed of a Guyver means it would be in space a VERY VERG long time. So could it really stay up there all time when we already know the unit does not have unlimited energy. I do not think so. It is also unlikely there would be a reason to go into space other than an assult on the Ark. And Takaya has yet to do that.

[Guest]

Could you be a little more specific on what incidents your talking about, Sully? The ones comming to mind usually involved some serious battle damage and the host usually disengaging the armor well before it was done with repairs. Data 3 kinda seems to prove your point but when you realize how far out they had to have gone and that he carried Mizuki all the way home despite being "exhausted" in his fight with Zerebubuse. This would seem to indicate he regained his strength with the armor on as there is no logical way for him to have regained it without it. Data 4, also seems to prove your point but there are flaws in that. For one thing Sho didn't pass out or really show signs of getting ready to pass out until he consciously disengaged the armor. Besides which he was suffering from blood loss from when Thancrus sliced him open something that would certainly carry over.

I don't recall any instances where the armor has had to sleep for ages or for that matter disengaged itself from fatigue. As a matter of fact the second Aptom fight seems to disprove that. Sho is fataly injured (if he was just human it would have been fatal) with a giant hole in his lower torso lying in a pool of his own blood. He boosts and proceed to fight Aptom with no indication of any handicap despite being very close to death a few minutes ago. Sho gets somewhat beaten up before mostly vaporizing Aptom and from the last page of that manga volume disengages the armor at least when he reenters the cave Mizuki's in. Next volume, apparently the same day as all those zoanoids were looking for them, we seem Sho in armor running full tilt with Mizuki on his back for a undetermined time with zoanoids in pursuit. Still at full fighting potential which would indicate he can recharge in armor. Then of course there's the Gigantes being able to be used by one host after the other "depletes" its energy.

Personally I don't exactly buy into the few cells being on the Control Medal and being significant to the regeneration. That explanation mostly comes from a scientists wild speculation before Agito caved his head in after seeing something he declared impossible. I seem to remember several movies with similar seens where the scientists speculations ended up being far from accurate. I'd like to know how that's supposed to work with the charge for 11 hours then regenerate in a few minutes event observed. That would seem to me to be a gradual growth deal instead of what actually happened, to me. Besides the energy requirements of the event are calculate to be about 5.6 Gt which depending upon the source is either more then a half or a third of the entire planets nuclear arsenals combined yield. As for the ATP molecules seems as how Sho averaged 6.6 grams a second and your own page indicates that it might not need to do the ATP->ADP reaction to be used it should be able to get by.

In space he'd be expending less energy I'd think as he doesn't need to fight gravity like he would to fly. Besides which unless he accelerate to some significant velocities he has plenty of time where he'd be just drifting as constant thrust isn't necessary. Plenty of time for the regeneration systems to do their job. Of course it'd be rather absurd to use it without hyperspace transport for interstellar travel. Of course the main question would be how it deals with a airless environment. Oh that brings up a question, is Gigantes labelled as having a air sac like organ in the Data Files?

I recall quantifying an event in Tekkaman Blade that rather suprised me. Towards the end Tekkaman (or is that Tekkawoman?) Sword spots the Space Knights ramp extend to launch their starship, while she's on the Radam Base on the other side of the moon. We know for sure she's on base because she just finished talking with Omega (Darkon). She intercepts the Blue Earth before it leaves atmosphere and the fight finishes pretty much on the edges of Earth's atmosphere. Thus she was moving an average speed of something like 12,000 km/s (have to run the numbers again) despite Blade's technical sheet indicating a top speed of Mach 3 in atmosphere. Rather large discrepency no? Point is Tekkaman Blade is rather similar to Guyver so they could pull something like this.

[Sully]

You talk big FOG3, but that is all.

First off. It is not proven a Guyver can survive in space for long periods of time (When I say long I mean not days but weeks/months).

Reason 1. Lungs... Guyver's host have to breath air. We've seen this. Look at the anime, Takaya approved it so it is cannon, Guyvers need O2. A Guyver has never gone to outer space so case 1 is that.

Reason 2. The time a person can spend in Guyver form is shown to be limited. The Guyver needs to use the Gravity controller so will use energy doing that. The distance between Earth and any planetary object is many miles away. So apart from the energy needed to produce O2 and the deminished returns on bio-energy thanks to the build up of CO2 it means the amount of time a Guyver spends in space is in not unlimited.

Reason 3. As I said it is POSSIBLE for a Guyver to go into space, the point is they can't do it forever. And if a Guyver got into battle it is in deep trouble. Case in point, Guyver 3 and his first battle with Team 5. Blood loss meant he was losing conciousness. But the unit would not remove. Lack of O2/BioEnergy from lack of food (a Guyver is limited by the host as much as it is enhanced by the host) means the Guyver would shut down (if it can shut down). Meaning time to float in space for a VERY long time with the host not having a clue what is going on. What condition the host would be in when it returns to a plenet with O2 and food is the next problem faced. Again Sho and Agito have to eat.

Now to go through what you said:

I don't recall any instances where the armor has had to sleep for ages or for that matter disengaged itself from fatigue.

Buy the books, read them it is not hard to find this happens at least 3 times if not 4 from what I remember and I've better things to do than go though each moment with a novice.

Personally I don't exactly buy into the few cells being on the Control Medal and being significant to the regeneration.

That is canon, don't like it leave the science zone.

seem to remember several movies with similar seens where the scientists speculations ended up being far from accurate.

This is Guyver, take your several movies elsewhere.

I recall quantifying an event in Tekkaman Blade that rather suprised me.

This is the Guyver Scientist zone, going to question what I say you use Guyver and nothing else but what was in Guyver.

[*zeo]

Brian is correct, please stick to the subject FOG3, other anime's have their own rules and believability levels and make for bad examples.

I.E.> Tekkaman may be able to go mach 3 (~2,250 MPH) in atmosphere but the Guyver can only go 300 MPH in atmosphere. Besides the 12,000 km/s is just plain wrong. You're talking about accelerating to 4% of the speed of light in very short time for something that can only go mach 3 in atmosphere. Completely violating conservation of energy even taking the moons lesser gravity and acceleration towards Earth's higher gravity into account.

But not to totally dismiss your arguments.

Data 3 kinda seems to prove your point but when you realize how far out they had to have gone and that he carried Mizuki all the way home despite being "exhausted" in his fight with Zerebubuse. This would seem to indicate he regained his strength with the armor on as there is no logical way for him to have regained it without it. Data 4, also seems to prove your point but there are flaws in that. For one thing Sho didn't pass out or really show signs of getting ready to pass out until he consciously disengaged the armor.

Walking home requires very little energy compared to running and carrying Mizuki would only required a tiny fraction of his Guyver strength so even if he was near exhausted, note he wasn't totally exhausted by that battle, does not mean he necessarily needed to recover to get them back home. A Guyver can push his or her limits if needed after all. As for your second example, aside from his breathing and body language there isn't a reliable way to tell how exhausted a Guyver is until they disengage their armor so you're assuming a lot from that one example.

I don't recall any instances where the armor has had to sleep for ages or for that matter disengaged itself from fatigue. As a matter of fact the second Aptom fight seems to disprove that. Sho is fataly injured (if he was just human it would have been fatal) with a giant hole in his lower torso lying in a pool of his own blood. He boosts and proceed to fight Aptom with no indication of any handicap despite being very close to death a few minutes ago. Sho gets somewhat beaten up before mostly vaporizing Aptom and from the last page of that manga volume disengages the armor at least when he reenters the cave Mizuki's in. Next volume, apparently the same day as all those zoanoids were looking for them, we seem Sho in armor running full tilt with Mizuki on his back for a undetermined time with zoanoids in pursuit. Still at full fighting potential which would indicate he can recharge in armor. Then of course there's the Gigantes being able to be used by one host after the other "depletes" its energy.

As Brian said it has happened, don't go by the truncated anime for proof. As for the Aptom fight it was the first battle Sho had been in in quite awhile so he was at full strength and was not exhausted by the battle which was relatively short. If you remember the interesting figures topic you remember that a Guyver regeneration is enormously potent so injury alone will not exhaust a Guyver and the injuries he sustained before bio-boosted would have been instantly healed by the unit, remember also the unit replaces host organs when activated with its own so in Guyver form the host injuries would have been instantly rectified. Then there is your Gigantic example, its invalid to the discussion because different host means new energy source so does not tell us anything about a Guyver's individual limits other than that it fall off when the Guyver host gets low on energy.

Personally I don't exactly buy into the few cells being on the Control Medal and being significant to the regeneration. That explanation mostly comes from a scientists wild speculation.

Cell regeneration increases with the number of cells regenerating.

I.E.> 1 cell becomes 2 cells, then 2 becomes 4, then 4 becomes 8, etc.

So as the mass increases so does the rate of growth but from a visual perspective it would not become noticeable until the mass reaches a certain amount, thus it only seemed that the CM regenerated spontaneously after 11 hours when the regeneration could have been happening the entire time. Besides it would be even more amazing if the CM could regenerate without a few cells as it would take even more energy to generate matter from scratch so we can safely say the few cells theory is valid in of itself.

In space he'd be expending less energy I'd think as he doesn't need to fight gravity like he would to fly. Besides which unless he accelerate to some significant velocities he has plenty of time where he'd be just drifting as constant thrust isn't necessary. Plenty of time for the regeneration systems to do their job. Of course it'd be rather absurd to use it without hyperspace transport for interstellar travel. Of course the main question would be how it deals with a airless environment. Oh that brings up a question, is Gigantes labelled as having a air sac like organ in the Data Files?

Since the Guyver uses gravity to fly in the first place then a Guyver doesn't have to fight gravity at all. The only valid considerations are momentum and drag. A Guyver may have plenty of time to accelerate in space but besides being a probable impossibility for a Guyver to remain functional in the vacuum of space for any significant length of time. The Guyver host will have to know a lot about astronomy and be very good in math to navigate through space and not drift off course and get lost. Something hard enough to do for most people but without air, food, and water a Guyver host will most probably lose consciousness after say twenty minutes, maximum I think, and then be stuck in self defense mode until it returns to a breathable atmosphere and can resusitate the host. Remember the host can lose consciousness while Bio-Boosted.

As for the Gigantic, it is based off a Relic after all so the idea that it can sustain a host in space should come as no surprise. At the very least the cocoon can maintain an air pocket though it is very likely the Gigantic can provide full life support short of energy required for battle. Basically as long as the Hyper Smashers aren't used then the Gigantic can be maintained for a long time.