kenshin113

This is true, OVA 12 totally reversed the trend and turned out amazing! And I'm right with you on them being in a jam without Team Five - they'd probably have been able to futz a lot of modified plot points in a hypothetical continuation but so much of the Gigantic payoff is set up by the Aptom/Zx-Tole brawl that couldn't take place I do wonder how well Act II sold when all was said and done; hard to find sales figures from those days, to say the least! You're very welcome, glad you found it as neat as I did!

No problem, I'm happy to know these were new to someone besides myself! Yeah, I definitely think it's a matter of picking your poison kinda thing for the end of 7 - I did like how they gave a story reason for the Zoanoids to be standing still when the blast came in that they were terrified as all hell but you're 100% right in that the final version had more dynamism to it. I re-watched 8 and I gotta say that I'm real glad that Aptom's voice got a whole lot more energetic in the final cut (I don't think it was Issei Futamata in the recalled version but if it is the director dropped the ball big time), though it did seem kinda fitting to have a flat vocal performance paired with some decidedly flat animation for what turned out to be a pretty underwhelming fight. At least the Zoanoid Buster still got to do some heavy lifting in the original even if the visual result was super janky!

Dunno if this is new for anyone else but it was definitely new to me! Backstory; a little while ago I was doing a Guyver nostalgia deep dive (as y'do every so often) and came across a Japanese site that mentioned initial versions of episodes 7 and 8 of Act II that were recalled due to poor production quality and redone into the versions we know and... uh, know. I wasn't sure if they were anywhere online but lo and behold - here we are! Episode 7 Episode 8: Thoughts are as below, don't read if you wanna see for yourself first! - The opening sequence/theme is taken from the original six episodes with bits and pieces from Act II being windowed in, the ending credits keep Strange Angel Milestone with a piece of art I've never seen anywhere else. Kinda torn on this because I really enjoyed the original Act II ending song as well! - BGM cues vary throughout in different spots and IMO they're usually worse picks compared to the final versions. Episode 7 - Guyver 1 comes into the scene with less flair (no flip) but better still art when he's dramatically pointing. - The (much paler) Ramotith transformation/death isn't as detailed, same with the pressure cannon (though to be honest it actually works better) - The second Chronos operative gets straight up disintegrated by the sonic busters. Almost certainly done for budget reasons but still kinda awesome. - Murakami has brown hair in these two episodes. Neat. - Balcus' outfit is identical design-wise but has a much more eye-searing color palette in the recall episodes. Also, green forehead gem. - Sho and Agito have a face to face conversation about what (supposedly) happened to his dad instead of a phone call, nice touch. - The explanation about the Guyver's blast field is more elaborate in the recall, complete with visual representation. - The Ramotith that gets killed by Murakami is SSJ yellow. Interesting choice. - The scenes with Murakami shooting down the Zoanoids are differently animated. - Tetsuro does a full roll out of the van instead of stumbling out holding his head. Not sure if it's supposed to be funny, but it was. - The fake Mizuki's transformation/death is different and the way Sho's reaction is framed/voiced makes it clear he has absolutely no idea what's going on behind him despite being handcuffed to a Zoanoid that's now twice his size. Sho. Dude. Duuuuuuuude. - The end of the fight is IMO a lot better; instead of a poorly drawn/animated Sho running to lead them away, he kills a bunch more in a really anime sequence before blasting the rest of the frozen crowd (and not because of bad animation, this is very clearly 'crap, we're so screwed') with the Megasmasher - This is in both versions but Murakami effortlessly dodging Broize's strikes untransformed and without his mental powers is badass as all hell. Episode 8 - Before anything else; the entire Lost Numbers fight takes place in an open environment with much better lighting. This changes the feel of that portion immensely. - We get to see Fumio walked to the processing tank before the reveal. This combined with the altered music cues makes this sequence a lot less unsettling. - Murakami's explanation to Sho and Tetsuro comes on the same road as the final version but this one has an attempted Chronos roadblock/trap that Sho easily handles. Take note of him timing the sonic busters so the first Zoanoid dies riiiiiight after transforming. - There's an attempt in the recalled version at hiding Murakami's RX-7 under scattered foliage. The key word here is attempt. - We meet Onuma and Shizu waaaaay earlier in this one (Onuma looks close to his final version, Shizu has brown hair) along with a nice little touch of Murakami scanning them to make sure they're on the level. - Aptom and Somlum initially confront Sho in human form. - Zoanoid Somlum is bright red with almost no other colors/detail to break up his design. He also tries hit Sho with the glue twice in fifteen seconds and gets put on the ground twice in that same time, if he didn't have any backup there's a very real chance Sho might have just beaten him to death and gone on with his day. - Dyme locking Sho down is a lot worse looking in this version to say the least. - There's absolutely zero drama to Aptom's fake Guyver reveal. This is gonna to be a running trend for the rest of the episode, as you'll see shortly. - Sho breaking free actually has some pretty decent still art even if the animation is iffy. Also, the shot of the broken blade landing in the grass is kept in the redone episode, which explains why the lighting looked so off to me even as a kid; it didn't take place in the same location. - Murakami straight up blasts Somlum's head off in what has to the the lowlight of these two episodes. It needs to be seen to be believed. - When Murakami starts messing with Dyme, we visibly see him react thanks to a cutaway to his human form. - Aptom loses his arm to the sonic busters (that come out of Guyver 1's eyes, sure, why not) instead of the Zoanoid Buster and shows about as much reaction to that as Somlum's headshot. - And his reaction to Dyme getting killed off? A semi-threatening raise of his remaining arm and an even less threatening 'onore'. This is co-worker energy, folks. - Guyver 1 and 3 meeting up at the end has some animation differences and ends on a nice piece of artwork that I feel is better than what the final version had. Needless to say, it was super interesting getting to experience 'new' Guyver content in 2025! I can also see why these two episodes were recalled, even considering Act II's reputation for rough quality these ones didn't even meet that bar even if a few sequences were really cool in isolation. (And I guarantee you, as soon as this Aptom gained independence from Chronos he's bailing on the whole thing to retire somewhere).

In all fairness, part of it could have been direction; a lot of the time the VA's are at the beck and call of the director, and if the director doesn't have the greatest handle on the source material then things can get iffy :P

No worries I liked that line! Part of it is that it's genuinely hot blooded and anime AF but yet got subverted minutes later when Enzyme gladly did his thing. In any other show that probably would have been a setup for a triumphant moment of overcoming the odds at the end, but this is Guyver, Sho was a complete novice and Genzo really, really hated him. Maybe they could've had the new Neo ZX-Tole pissed at Aptom for stepping on the pride of Chronos (and to be perfectly honest, he'd probably hate him for being an uppity Lost Number too) instead of the 'you killed my team and took my leg'? Either way, that fight's gotta happen to setup Gigantic. The 2005 dub is technically better in a number of ways - the ADR process has come a long way since 1992 - but I still like a lot of the performances/direction from the 1992 dub. I agree that 2005 Tetsuro's voice was actually pretty well cast but he seemed wayyyyy too chill a lot of the time considering the situations he found himself in; the overdramatic reads from the original OVA actually worked better, in that regard. Overall I agree that it's a great show that's far more faithful to the manga but I do like the 80's aesthetic of the older character designs

Tape! We rented them from a Blockbuster a looooong time ago and copied 'em with a second VCR; wasn't perfect, but hey, it worked! Didn't know that about the Lister/Agito credit sequences, we never bothered recording any of the ED's after the first episode so little surprise that I forgot! The occasional liberties taken with the dub honestly helped it in some regards; the accents were one thing, but a few of their dialogue tweaks were great too! Going back to Sho's school friends, the EN version pretty much changed them all for the better; I still remember this fantastic exchange in the first episode, for instance. "You know it was no simple accident. That truck was driven into the ground like some kind of stake, like something was pounding down on it." "You're kidding!" "No. And usually trucks don't do that." The localization also did wonders for Sho's response to Agito when he picked up the phone in episode five. Fahn's hilariously bitchy "I've called five times!" is a thing of magic and all the better for being 100% in character for how frustrated his character is right then. The studio miiiiiight have been able to tweak the story to give Aptom a new battle form (maybe Relics Point used data from Team Five during his revdevelopment and he just didn't use those abilities against Sho for whatever reason) but everything kinda falls apart when it comes to the time-skip; Neo ZX-Tole showing up for his grudge match against Aptom is pretty key to that whole sequence, and I'm not sure who could have taken his place. If they really wanted a cop-out, I suppose they could have had Guyot or Barcus engineer a second Team Five off-screen and just have had Aptom kill them off somehow. That original dub was honestly far better than it had any right to be. While some of the tertiary voices could be iffy (Lisker, human ZX-Tole and Aptom don't sound tremendously different from one another, for instance) but the leads were pitch perfect. The US Renditions versions of Sho, Tetsuro, and Agito still hold up even today which is shocking for a dub that was commissioned in 1992. I could have done without the heavy processing on the Guyver voices - I swear, they just got worse as the show went on - but the actual acting was generally pretty darn solid even with the few misses they had in there. I'd gotten so used to original Tetsuro's histrionics that the 2005 version just felt phoned in a lot of the time.

Welp, finally got through all 12 eps! It was actually quite a bit of viewing because I watched the dubbed versions first (both US Renditions and Manga) then on a whim I decided to watch the original raws! Was definitely worth it, had a blast reliving some old memories Raws for first six episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXFgiVsnRF0UAEjEHb3iQHA/videos The raws for the second half can be found on Dailymotion by Googling the JP titles on here: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=675&page=25 - The majority of the Japanese titles used the format "Hook! Elaborative second chunk!" The US Renditions release sometimes stuck with this syntax (Terminal Battle! The Fall of Chronos Japan) and sometimes they just rolled it into one (Genesis of the Guyver); the Manga release, in contrast, kept the USR titles for the first six episodes but truncated the second half titles pretty noticeably. I will say, though, there's a stark quality about the Japanese title for episode five (戦慄!! ガイバー死す/Shudder!! Guyver Dies") that just... works. - The font for the JP title cards is glowing red kanji/katakana. It's foreboding and I love it. - The original ending sequences for episodes two and three end on shots of Guyver II and III respectively. I guess the English versions just reused the same sequence for the first six episodes? - There are moments here and there in the English dubs that were unvoiced for some reason and it's really jarring when you see them in Japanese. They're mostly grunts/reaction noises but they really do add a lot; for instance, when Lisker flips over Sho and tosses him into the wall during their fight, you hear quite a bit of verbalization from Takeshi Kusao and Norio Wakamoto. That slow upwards panning shot of Guyver II works a lot better with Wakamoto's mocking laughter over it, same with Kusao's freaked out yell when firing the Megasmasher to finish Lisker off. Also, if you close your eyes when watching it really sounds like Trunks just can't catch a break from Cell. - I'm not sure either of the Chronos mooks with accents (episode 2, episode 9) had Japanese dialects that warranted them. Not that I minded it any, it gave the scenes some color! - Common to all versions but I always got a kick out of Sho's dramatic kick on Elegen being the only bit of meaningful offense he lands on Team Five until Agito bails him out and tells him how to roast Gaster. Dude was a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest until Guyver III showed up. - Also common to all versions; Sho's dumbass friends. They're the best. - The big Agito reveal in episode five has Sho kinda parrot what Makishima said (Makishima-san is... Chronos?); not exactly riveting dialogue, but it makes a touch more sense than having EN Sho act like he should have known all along for some reason. - The original version of episode six has a decently lengthy recap sequence before the opening that I can't recall being in either of the domestic versions...? - The fight with ZX-Tole, Sho, and Agito sounds drastically different depending on which version you watch. The Manga release has silence in the background, the US Renditions release has the first verse of Takeshi's Kusao's version of the OP as a backing track and the original Japanese has the second verse of Shinichi Ishihara's. I like the US Renditions one the best! - The original version of Part II's OP is cut slightly differently. - I don't have a damn clue how a hypothetical part III would have proceeded with Team Five long gone, even if they had been given a half-decent budget for the next run. - Finally - and this is 100% subjective - I ended up preferring EN Sho to JP Sho. Agonized death screams aside, I felt like Tom Fahn managed to channel the terrified teenager part of Sho a lot better; in contrast, Takeshi Kusao comes off like a legit badass a lot of the time which would have worked in any show besides Guyver where the protag's about as far from a badass as they come, even with the super-powered alien armor. Like half the time when Fahn does battle cries it sounds like a kid trying REAL HARD to sound intimidating and it's absolutely perfect for the novice that he was.

Sounds about right! I think the only time when the self defense mode did otherwise was in Out of Control where it massacred a bunch of Chronos mooks running full speed in the other direction after they saw Gregole get wrecked, but in all fairness it's very possible the Unit still recognized them as possible threats even though they were retreating.

Oh yeah, they're absolutely screwed in this scenario. The fact they're present at all is a testament to Chronos' love of hostage situations, and odds are at least one of the Zoanoids there would think to use them as human shields. Too bad the Unit wouldn't care any. Man, I can only imagine what would happen once he woke up and realized what the Guyver did to win that fight... maybe he'd fully throw in his lot with Makishima and go all Punished Sho, who knows? It's a trip going back to the manga after the OVA and realizing just how much those six episodes expanded on the original chapters. The Guyver doesn't look nearly as intimidating in the early parts of the manga/TV series, though I do have to admit that I like how they gave Sho a bit of hope in the TV Enzyme fight by implying he miiiiight have been able to win if he'd had a little bit more time (or made some distance between him and Genzo, whichever). Not that it makes up for animating his loss like it was a minor inconvenience instead of the brutal death it was (or playing the aftermath for borderline comic relief in the next episode), but those are TV restrictions for ya!

Hey, thanks for the reply! Figured it'd only be fair if I thought about my own question and share back To be honest, even with the grievous injuries inflicted beforehand I can't see Enzyme troubling Guyver I all that much in this scenario, especially seeing as the Unit doesn't suffer from pesky things like pain or dulled reaction times from fear or stress; I could very easily see an overconfident Genzo going for another tail strike only to have it caught and blasted off with a Head Beam, for instance. In addition, the Sonic Busters and a one handed Pressure Cannon would be more than sufficient to engage Enzyme from range, something that version of the Zoanoid simply wasn't built for. Given its speed advantage over the Zoanoid (remember, Enzyme's initial strike whiffed on an untransformed Sho) the only way I could see the Guyver losing is Guyot doing what he did in canon and detonating Enzyme at point blank range to splash him to death with the acid blood. Of course, it's a very real possibility the superior reflexes that the Unit has without its inexperienced host mucking up the works might be enough to steer it clear of any serious damage. Now, the real fight begins. We've seen from episode six that a healthy and whole Guyver I in self-defense mode makes absolute mincemeat of Darzerb and Elegen and even missing an arm it's a safe bet that it still wouldn't have too much trouble with those two. That said, ZX-Tole might be a whole other story; while one on one the Guyver probably trounces him with slightly effort than usual, the other two could potentially tie up the Unit long enough for the team leader to inflict some serious hurt, especially considering his armor's impressive resilience and his bio-blasters' short charge times (barring the Blaster Tempest, assuming that the 1989 version of ZX-Tole is capable of using it). We also don't know how much energy's been expended from Sho's injured body at this point, but between the healing and usage of weaponry the Unit's tank won't be anywhere close to full... (All that said, the people who are in the most danger here are Tetsuro and Mizuki. They're prime bait for a hostage situation that the Guyver's not going to give a crap about :P)

First off; hi everyone! Glad to find a bunch of dedicated Guyver fans in 2021 So, I just finished reliving Enzyme II's battle against Guyver I and that started the gears turning... Flash back to episode five. Genzo's got Sho on the ropes with Guyot telling him to go for the kill - but maybe this time he's a little less precise in his order, or maybe the ex-chairman wants to inflict even more pain than he already has. So instead of ripping out the Control Medal, he pulls a Fumio and debrains the hell out of our plucky protagonist. Guyot's satisfied, Enzyme's gloating, Team Five's collective hateboner is off the charts, Mizuki's screaming and Tetsuro's freaking out as only Tetsuro can freak out, all while the tiny part of his head that's still rational is going 'wait a minute, shouldn't he be melting or something...?' All festivities cease*, of course, when Guyver I gets back up in the brutally efficient self defense mode, missing an arm, part of its abdomen, and Sho's brain (and by extension, everything that makes Sho... uh, Sho). Along, of course, with the use of the Megasmasher until the chest plates heal up. So, my question is: 1. Can the self-defense'd out Guyver I successfully beat the super-resilient Zoanoid engineered specifically to kick its ass, and if so: 2. Can it then overcome the odds against the three on one handicap match that'll come when the surviving Team Five members, absolutely fed up with this capital 'B' Bullcrap, decide to put an end to things once and for all? *Except for Mizuki screaming. At this point in the series, it's kinda justified.