Will it always be like this?

[H222G981]

Is the forum ever going to truly return to what it looked like?...or is it now off limits to guests? Although I am glad its returned. What happens now?

[*Jess♥]

not sure.

I have been advised to can the pre-order and pledge system.

but how else do we ensure that people have a right to read the monthly chapters?

I really don't know. I've hidden the pre-order topics for now until I can think up a solution.

 

otherwise we won't be able to  release translations on a monthly basis.

[H222G981]

not sure.I have been advised to can the pre-order and pledge system.but how else do we ensure that people have a right to read the monthly chapters?

I really don't know. I've hidden the pre-order topics for now until I can think up a solution.otherwise we won't be able to  release translations on a monthly basis.

 

 I respect your decisions 100%.  I for 1 though would  love to see the forum returned to its former glory.

[Shin Mefilas]

There are a lot of very inteligent people on the site I'm shore they can help find a way to solve the problem.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Prometheus Guyver

[Guyver1]

I think the main thing that opens up any issues is charging for the scanlations without said funds going direct to the publisher. While we may pledge, there is no concrete proof that Kadokawa gets the funds. This is not to say you don't purchase the manga with said pledge funds by any stretch. I think the scanlations should only be available to people who show proof of purchase via pics and not allow just anyone access to them. A monthly english translated release may not be available to do like that. We would all have to wait for the newest tankoubon to be released... long wait, I know but the best practice in my opinion. Also, the first 30 tankoubon's worth of work would be the same. If users can get you pics of said volumes they physically own, then there would be no issues. For the purposes of the forum though, there are no issues with a fan community discussing Guyver or anything else for that matter. There can be no recourse if profit is not being made. If I can be of any help getting anything going, please let me know!

[*guyverfan]

.

I really don't know. I've hidden the pre-order topics for now until I can think up a solution.

.

 

remove/hide the magna viewer with the first 30 tanks already translated aswell and you may be able to restore the forum as it was before until such time things are thought through.

 

.

[Sully]

 

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I really don't know. I've hidden the pre-order topics for now until I can think up a solution.

.

 

remove/hide the magna viewer with the first 30 tanks already translated aswell and you may be able to restore the forum as it was before until such time things are thought through.

 

.

 

 

That shouldn't be needed (taking down what is basically "free" content. As said before the most they'd do about those would be ask for the scanlations to be taken down. If it bothered them. The likelyhood they didn't know of this site after 10 odd years is unlikely. It would be worse though if JL had full Japanese scans up, that would probably pee them off even more that having translated content. 

 

The main thing I'd recommend is making the section of the board that has anything to do with this topic for members only (not visitors) and for people who can show they own a Guyver collection (more so books). Aside from that update any webpages that hold scanlations so that google and other robots / spiders don't read them.

 

E.g https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/93710?hl=en

 

Don't make things obovious, and please hide / move into a new section of the forum this and other topics like it that don't pop up on Google or are viewable by visitors. The rest of the forum can continue on as normal. Call it something like the Guyver Collectors Corner (you most likely know something cooler Jess) and people who are fans see the content. 

 

A simple less I've learned: Less is more, don't give a) the troll more than he/she needs and b) don't make it simple for people outside this site visiting to know everything.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Sully

[H222G981]

This is frustrating. I hate seeing the forum like this. 

[Kanji]

You're just going to make the problem worse. The best call is to disassociate Japan Legend from any translations, even keeping posts of raw chapters to a minimum, (thus keeping yourself safe). You can't stop people from wanting access to the manga for free, and any attempt to do so will either aggravate them, inviting more trolling, or simply lead to the creation of new scanlation groups picking up the series and duplicating efforts (as has now already happened which I have no doubt added fuel to the fire).

 

http://chillock-amt.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/guyver-chapter-184-english-translation.html

 

As you can see from this groups comments, they've clearly made no attempt to engage with JL and actually understand what it is you were trying to do, they've just made accusations based on unfounded rumours that are circulating around the community stating "Guyver Advocacy are charging for their translations".

 

I'd personally be interested in knowing exactly how many volumes of guyver have been purchased through the pledge system since it began, and whether this justifies the continuation of the project. It was a great gesture, but without official instruction from Kadokawa it's not right for us to take this decision upon ourselves. For all we know, they may advocate the free international distribution to raise awareness in the hope a bigger publisher invests. Restricting access like this may actually be to the determent of the series.

 

Bottom line, be open and give it away for free, the wider community doesn't care...........be secretive and charge for the translations (even if it is being spent on the manga), people are going to raise an eyebrow and think you doing something shady.

 

It's a sad world we live in where everyone expects people to exploit each other for a quick buck!

Edited October 6, 2015 by kanji_xiii

[*Jess♥]

Rough figure, the Guyver advocacy project has/will result in roughly 150 sales for kadokawa.

Not an astronomical figure, but better than 0.

So far we actually managed to complete a third of that but it is my responsibility to make sure it all goes through. Something that weighs on me... Which is motivation for me to go along with what guyver1 is suggesting.

[Salkafar]

Just have people order the book, take a picture of them with the book, and let them have the translation.

[river_chaos]

Salk, that's what I've done in the past, and I think most of us here are good enough had spotting photo-touching enough to know if a photo is fake or not. 

 

Another thing: can the site allow other members to post places that post the Japanese pages? It's not the Advocacy's work, nor are they providing raws, but it will keep everyone in the loop in the manga. 

[TricoBren]

Hi guys.

Just though I'd weigh in with some thoughts.

Firstly, this guy is highly likely talking from his butthole with regards to mailing Kadokawa.

2 of us have taken him up on his offer of a screencap of the mail but he completely ignored the request (thus far anyway).

Also, if he really DID send an email, I'm very sure he did so in English. This will pretty much garantee that his message will end up

In their junk mail to start with, or if it doesn't, it'll likely be disregarded anyway. For better or worse, English is not really widely spoken over here and most people tend to balk when faced with a wall of English text. That said, even IF they not only got his message AND understood it, by the time they get round to investigating, they'll discover that the scans reader has been taken down anyway.

Basically, they just aren't gonna waste time trawling through the site. They are VERY busy people.

It's clear that his problem is the pledge/pre-order system. If it was the fact that we were giving it away for free then he should also report the Chinese and Russian groups too. He hasn't though. He's just very annoyed that he can't get drenn for free anymore.

The system of offering to order in bulk for members here is something that Kadokawa would applaud. It's a great idea but also a headache for Jess who has to do all the legwork. In fact, he probably did Jess a favor as now she has a excellent reason to kick her feet up and relive herself of the stress.

Just have people order the book, take a picture of them with the book, and let them have the translation.

This. If people still want to support the artist, they should order the books from Amazon.jp themselves and post a pic with their user name. This will completely eliminate any money transactions going through here and with the online reader gone, this will just be forum. The downside however is that due to Takaya's pace, they will have to wait a year for each book and perpetually be behind. It's not perfect but at least they will be buying the book and have access to a translation.

Another option is that I can post a rundown of what happens in each chapter as a "spoiler" . No images just a few sentences for those that HAVE to know. Just an idea.

[*Jess♥]

The system of offering to order in bulk for members here is something that Kadokawa would applaud. It's a great idea but also a headache for Jess who has to do all the legwork. In fact, he probably did Jess a favor as now she has a excellent reason to kick her feet up and relive herself of the stress.

!!

[*Kenji Murakami]

I'd be perfectly happy to take a picture of myself with the next manga I get for the scanslation, I really enjoy reading the manga in English.

[Sully]

This. If people still want to support the artist, they should order the books from Amazon.jp themselves and post a pic with their user name. This will completely eliminate any money transactions going through here and with the online reader gone, this will just be forum. The downside however is that due to Takaya's pace, they will have to wait a year for each book and perpetually be behind. It's not perfect but at least they will be buying the book and have access to a translation.

Another option is that I can post a rundown of what happens in each chapter as a "spoiler" . No images just a few sentences for those that HAVE to know. Just an idea.

 

 

I don't think it's really fair to expect people to own Book 32 to get Book 32's translated content.

 

You can quite easily see if someone owns books 8 to 31 or 1 to 31 of the books that they are a Guyver collector and would be serious about getting book 32. 

 

In saying that, once Book 32 went up for retail, if you don't own it and have a pic with it tough luck for Book 33's content. 

 

FYI even though my sister who lives in Japan bought me book 31 (she normally gets them for me) I bought a second copy yesterday to prove a point on price of a single book (I'll use it anyway for scans or most likely will trade it with XtroGuyver for a transfomrer toy, eithers good for me there is no such thing as a wasted Guyver book in my collection!). Which worked out roughly 11 UKP or 15 Euro in current exchange rates. If people don't like that as a once a year cost then they are visiting the wrong Guyver site for translations.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sully

[TricoBren]

This. If people still want to support the artist, they should order the books from Amazon.jp themselves and post a pic with their user name. This will completely eliminate any money transactions going through here and with the online reader gone, this will just be forum. The downside however is that due to Takaya's pace, they will have to wait a year for each book and perpetually be behind. It's not perfect but at least they will be buying the book and have access to a translation.

Another option is that I can post a rundown of what happens in each chapter as a "spoiler" . No images just a few sentences for those that HAVE to know. Just an idea.

 

I don't think it's really fair to expect people to own Book 32 to get Book 32's translated content.

 

You can quite easily see if someone owns books 8 to 31 or 1 to 31 of the books that they are a Guyver collector and would be serious about getting book 32. 

 

In saying that, once Book 32 went up for retail, if you don't own it and have a pic with it tough luck for Book 33's

Oh I understand what you mean totally.

However, we don't have a pledge system in place anymore so how can we ensure that people will actually buy it in exchange for the scans? After all, anybody can just say "yeah I'll get a copy" right?

Naturally, I don't want to see people waiting an entire year between books either but what other way can we be sure that only paying customers are getting the translations?

[Sully]

Oh I understand what you mean totally.

However, we don't have a pledge system in place anymore so how can we ensure that people will actually buy it in exchange for the scans? After all, anybody can just say "yeah I'll get a copy" right?

Naturally, I don't want to see people waiting an entire year between books either but what other way can we be sure that only paying customers are getting the translations?

 

 

Because the moment that member lost + access as they don't own Book 32 they'll get it if they want Book 33's content. 

 

Yes, it involves a little bit of trust, but unless the person is collector they don't make the grade anyway. 

 

It's easy enough to mange forum wise. you've 3 sections

 

1) Current Chapters Content (e.g. Book 32). To get this you must a) be part of the previous pledge system (this expires after book 32) or b) have a large amount the Guyver books after the Viz / Chang Yi books and own a full collection of either English published comics / books. If you don't but you do own book 31 and a all other Japanese relased volumes you get access to this section.

 

2) Previous full book (currently Book 31) Access to this requires you OWN book 31 and can prove it to the admins / mods / community.

 

3) The back catolog: Access to this requires that you own EVERY released book and by default makes it a lot easier to get access to the above. 

 

I know for people new to Guyver this is a lot to ask... but if you're new to Guyver go watch the 2005 and learn to use ebay / amazon to buy the content needed to prove you're a fan. 

 

Each time you have a new volume released you simply reset access to forum 2 and prune people from forum 1. Forum 3 access would rarely change and I can't see anyone who earned that access NOT buying the current books as their OCD wouldn't allow it. But again, a little bit of people management and again people can lose access to that section whenever a new volume is released if they where not members of forum 2. 

 

This is kinda fair as while current content and back catolog access requires you own every previous book you can access to the last volume by simply showing that you own that book (which is about as generious as we should ever be).

 

Freeloaders can go to whomever for "free" content. But at least this model leaves things so we're policing ourselves. The thing I like about the community here is we support Guyver. If you want access to JL's work, it's simple prove you're a fan and deserve access to the content. As before be strict, if you're found to be sharing content to freeloaders, bye bye.  

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sully

[TricoBren]

Blah blah A CRAP LOAD OF AWESOMENESS Blah blah

 

Ok! Sounds like a very good idea! I approve!

 

What does everyone else think? Also, now that the Advocacy is officially dead, would it be a good idea to rename the group for future scans? Or maybe keep the continuation of the scans/group a "secret"?

Just wondering (like everyone else) where we'll go from here...

 

Also, this +member thing, how many of us are there that can see this thread and what were the qualifying conditions to get this status? Just wondering.... lol

Edited October 8, 2015 by TricoBren

[Sully]

One member of the Advocacy has left, yes it is the key member but I remember Jess saying something about someone else who also helped out with translations.

 

If the former other memebers of that group are still around then maybe reform the group. The group could still keep the old name, can't see why you need to re-invent the wheel there. 

 

Would also be interesting to hear from others that could meet the criterial of owning either in English or Japanese all the books. But do they consider it something they should do and would if it gave them more access to current chapters?

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sully

[*Kenji Murakami]

I think Durandal and BBDude were a big part of it.

[Cannibal]

 

Just have people order the book, take a picture of them with the book, and let them have the translation.

I'll just add my thoughts: if it's all about trust (you can print fake books ), will it work with Bookwalker.jp's digital books? Take a shot with the reader opened on your computer device (some middle pages) with your username stamp. It's a bit harder to fake a printed book, than to fake such a screenshot, but IMO not so much harder if you want to fool someone.

 

Anyway, I think if someone own Bookwalker's digital copies, it's not different from owning the printed copies. So if you want to give translation to people who owns the books, then you need to think about some method of how to validate digital copies owners.

 

---

btw Bookwalker's reader have some printscreen protection, don't know yet if it can be "cracked" with some software, but you simply can't printscreen opened pages in Windows.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Cannibal

[Sully]

Playing devil’s advocate here so please don't take this personally Cannibal if it comes off a little harsh....

 

There are limits to what a community can do. Simply put Guyver predates EReaders by a LONG time. So anyone now thinking "ohhh I need to buy the books to update my collection" and then buys them for an e-reader and is trying to prove they own old school copies of Viz or Chang Yi works don't really match up.

 

I think we should simply ignore ereader and simply leave it old school. It's simpler to manage. It is the person that needs to prove to Japan Legend that they are a fan, not the other way around. 

 

Kock off / self printed book I don't know anyone who'd logically think "oh I'll save 15 euro on a book to my door and then go through the effort and cost of trying to a find the book on-line and b printing the fecking thing and cutting into book shape and colour printing a cover and then binding the pages to fake it. I'd give up part way and say "smegg it, I'll just buy the book".....

 

 

The vast majority of fans here have probably being invested in Guyver since the late 1990's to 2005/6. So most if any if they really did buy books, would have bought paper copies, if they didn't.... well time to support the hobby and keep Takaya writing!

Edited October 8, 2015 by Sully

[TricoBren]

One member of the Advocacy has left, yes it is the key member but I remember Jess saying something about someone else who also helped out with translations.

 

Key member being Jess, right? 

Yeah the typesetter is still around and the current translator, Melvin Junko, that took over duties from Durendal is still present as far as I know. I can't see why the monthly chapters can't continue unhindered really.

[Guyver1]

I think getting the printed books is key. I personally own all 31 tanks and will provide a pic to prove it later. I agree that the true fans OCD will not allow them to not get the next ones so providing monthly scans could work on that level, provided one can prove they own the rest. This is going to be quite a journey to nail down and figure out. But the saga must continue!