Matt Bellamy Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 New teaser trailer is up! New discussion thread started! Not too much new here, but some small plot points, which is nice. Still not sold on it, but the Batsuit does look good now that were get a few more shots of the normal suit. Quote
Salkafar Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 This is not going to work. Batman versus Superman has been an iconic image ever since Frank Miller wrote the scene in The Dark Knight Returns. And it worked because, until that moment, Superman had been unassailable, and Batman always his ally. But that was in 1986, the days of the great changes - the days of the Crisis, the end of the Silver Age and the dawning of the Dark Age of comics - the age we have lived in ever since*. It just doesn't work anymore. The whole "Who would win, Batman or Superman" debate is so played out. Batman can't win; anyone who thinks about the issue for a minute will realize this - but this conclusion is indigestible. The trump card - traditionally Kryptonite, but we haven't seen any of it so far in the new DC movie universe - is a tired plot device (then again, so are Superman's powers, of course), which has no right of being as effective as it is consistently portrayed. And beyond it, Batman has no chance of victory against someone who can do what Superman has already been shown to be capable of doing. And Superman being worshiped as a god? Really? He couldn't handle that by sitting down with these people for a while and explaining he's just a guy? I am going to assume a large part of the movie will center on him failing to do so. I think the main flaw we're looking at is throwing Superman into real-life problems, and that will always fail. You can't have a world like ours and a guy like Superman at the same time. It doesn't work. Just ask Alan Moore: he is highly critical of superheroes because they never change things; they fight to maintain the status quo. And why do they do that? Because the true goal of superheroes is not to save the world, or make it better, but to sell comic books. Action Comics is a monthly, and if Superman were to do what he logically speaking should do, namely take care of all the big problems - for instance, seek out and destroy all weapons of mass destruction anywhere, apprehend terrorist groups and hand them over to the International Crimes Court, clean up pollution, and end world hunger and poverty - then the comic would end. Which is exactly what happened in Alan Moore's Miracle Man. The opposite also happens sometimes: Superman cracks under the pressure of being a superhero, goes on an insane rampage and destroys the world. That's what happened in Mark Waid's Irredeemable (Which has a pretty metafictional happy ending; I recommend it). The 'Superman' there is actually called 'the Plutonian', but it's pretty obvious who we're really looking at. And, of course, we now have the genuine article losing it and turning on the world in DC's Injustice: Gods among us. The 'god' in that title is definitely not worthy of worship. Grant Morrison, for his part, views Superman as a living archetype, who inspires us to be Supermen (and -women) - something which literally happened in his run on JLA. But in his comics, Superman frequently ends up sacrificing himself, taking himself out of the equation, to give us the room and opportunity to rise to his level (See All-Star Superman). Kind of like Christ, really; perhaps appropriate, since Superman was after all created by two boys called Shuster and Siegel, and sent out into a gentile world. But these are all comic books. And comic books are not movies, as we keep learning. A comic book can be read and re-read, at your own pace, giving you time to pick up on hints, clues, indications that more is going on than meets the eye. That is not possible when watching a movie. The audiovisual medium is much more forceful than comic books. I have read - but can't vouch for it - that our ability to critically assess what we see on a screen shuts down ten seconds into a movie or TV-show. That is why movies and TV-shows actually work; we're drawn into the story whether we want to or not, because our subsconscious cannot conceive of the fact that what we are seeing is not real. Our evolution does not account for the concepts of acting, let alone creative editing, special effects and emotive music. Why would the sight of a ridiculously-garbed man whom we know for a fact to be Henry Cavill, a guy who after that day's acting went back to his trailer or whatever, fighting another ridiculously-dressed person (Even if it's Antje Traue) evoke anything in us? But in fact it does. That is why a bad comic is an annoyance, but a bad movie can be a franchise-killer. And that is why you have to tread so carefully when making a movie, and not just clasp on to what you think might be popular because you understand only the glitz, the headlines and the concepts which you think might be cool. I have a deep-set suspicion that there are producers in Hollywood that want a movie that presses the concept of Batman and Superman throwing down merely because they think it would make a cool visual - and have wanted it for years. As some of you may know, a few years ago there was talk of an animated feature with this concept. It never happened. Because what can happen? Either outcome is unacceptable, as in any battle between two heroes. In epics, it was acceptable because the classics were innately tragic; heroes always met a deadly fate. But these are superhero comics. So it will be a compromise at best; they will agree to be allies, or at least to not fight anymore. That didn't work in Godzilla versus King Kong, and that one had two 'anti-heroes' rather than actual heroes. So what are we looking at? Fisticuffs in what should be a hilariously uneven battle anyway, over a meaningless disagreement, with no beneficial outcome; probably a lot of property damage, and apparently the founding of the Justice League. It screams desperation; DC is on a hideous disadvantage compared to Marvel in the movie world, and after considerable success with Arrow and The Flash compared to the somewhat lacklustre Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter, Daredevil blows everything that came before it away without even featuring a single truly super-powered character. Now, it seems, they want to catch up all in one go after the also less-than-stellar Man of Steel by including not only Superman, but also a new Batman (bad move, IMHO, after the Dark Knight trilogy) as well as Wonder Woman and even Aquaman and Cyborg. It's just not going to happen. If you take white truffles, Beluga caviar, Kobe beef, Dom Perignon and saffron, toss it all in a big pan and cook it according to a recipe for risotto, the result will not be the tastiest dish in the world. DC just seems to not be able to juggle super-powers properly. Green Lantern was really not bad, but it really wasn't very good, either. The Wonder Woman vehicle never made it beyond an unscreened pilot. Maybe it's because DC is trying to push their brand of superheroes - who traditionally are above human flaws - as just ordinary guys with their own problems. Hal Jordan was a man without fear. Wonder Woman was a princess from an advanced society of immortal women who fought only for justice. Superman was the man of tomorrow. They were above dumb human foibles. Marvel Heroes usually are not - except Thor - they all emphatically had problems, and they generally weaponized them. Iron Man is a hero because his heart was almost shredded by shrapnel. Spiderman is a hero because he feels guilty. Captain America is a heroic super-soldier because he was a sickly weakling. Bruce Banner is a hero, albeit a problematic one, because his experiment failed. And Daredevil, well, if he wasn't blind, he'd be just another lawyer. But Thor was always a hero, and so are Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman and the Green Lantern. Hal Jordan was sought out because he wasn't flawed; Diana became the Wonder Woman because she was the most accomplished Amazon; Superman is a hero because he has the power of a god and the will of a messiah. They are not heroes in spite of their flaws; they have no relevant flaws. True, people keep trying to focus on what they perceive as flaws, but it never works out. These heroes are from a different age. Anyway... if tl/dr: I don't think this movie will be very good. Although it will probably look awesome. * Traditionally superhero-focused comic books are held to have been published during the Golden Age (1938-1954), the Silver Age (1954 - 1985) and the Dark Age (1986 - today). In reality it's of course much more complicated than that, as even individual authors go through considerable changes over the years. 4 Quote
*Jess♥ Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 are you doing a university degree in 'comic book'? because that is a winning essay!! Quote
Shin Mefilas Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Why is it that Batman feels more like Lex Luthor in this trailer? DC instead of rushing and forcing out movies that are just never going to work how about focus on trying to make solid films first. Thats what Marvel did. Yes they did leave hints here and there but to start with most of their movies where ether stand alone or unconected series. They made shore their movies would work before they started try to tie them together and even now most of them can still stand alone without the others, Guardians and Winter Solder are the best examples. While Man of Steel didnt do well the franchise was still salvageable if they had learned from their mistakes on the first film. The only DC film I have any hope for is SHAZAM! If they base it of the new 52 origins (one of the few things that new 52 didnt screw up) they can have an all powerful super hero who also has believable flaws that make him relatable. The New 52 Captain Marvel will work much better in a movie then Superman. As long as they make it well and dont hamstring it. Edited April 18, 2015 by Darkman Quote
Salkafar Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 are you doing a university degree in 'comic book'? ...I may have read a few too many comics. 1 Quote
durendal Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Why so much hate for DC? Can't we all just be happy that they made a film about batman and superman? if it sucked, what's it gonna do to us? Nothing, but if this franchise fails, it's going to be a huge blow to DC and a definite win for Marvel. I find it strange that any company would be willing to set themselves up to fail. Besides, Zack Snyder has done some movies that I liked, so no matter what people say about this movie, I will just sit back and enjoy it. Quote
Salkafar Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Zack Snyder has done some movies that I liked, so no matter what people say about this movie, I will just sit back and enjoy it. Yeah... Zack Snyder... Zack Snyder is going to kill Batman and the Joker in the finale of his comic book arc 'End Game'. Quote
durendal Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Zack Snyder has done some movies that I liked, so no matter what people say about this movie, I will just sit back and enjoy it. Yeah... Zack Snyder... Zack Snyder is going to kill Batman and the Joker in the finale of his comic book arc 'End Game'. Your tone implies that you are not impressed. It seems that you are too critical of everything. If you don't like something, it might be best for you not to push your opinion to somebody else. As it seems that we often differ in opinion in every discussion that I have had with you, please do not try to attack every opinion that I have. I find it quite oppressive for some time now. Quote
Matt Bellamy Posted April 19, 2015 Author Posted April 19, 2015 Why so much hate for DC? Can't we all just be happy that they made a film about batman and superman? if it sucked, what's it gonna do to us? Nothing, but if this franchise fails, it's going to be a huge blow to DC and a definite win for Marvel. I find it strange that any company would be willing to set themselves up to fail. Besides, Zack Snyder has done some movies that I liked, so no matter what people say about this movie, I will just sit back and enjoy it.I think the hate more has to do with the fact that we KNOW they could do better. But it seems like they don't want to copy all of Marvel's playbook, but still want all the money.It just screams of a spoiled brat who has seen a young upstart beat him out in a contest and screams " I CAN DO THAT TOO" but without realizing WHY he lost. For example, it feels more like they are throwing out all the criticism that man of Steel had (too dark), and amping it up, instead of trying to make it better. The whole atmosphere behind Warner bros. decisions just don't seem to make much sense at the moment. Maybe it will become more clear once this movie is released, but until then, speculation is all we have... And the current teasers for it aren't doing it much good. I mean, look at the new Fantastic Four. People have been talking drenn about it for probably over a year with the little bits of info they put out. It's first teaser was very meh and not that impressive. It's newest trailer has put a more positive spin on the movie so far. If the next BvS trailer is great, maybe the talk will turn positive. But so far, they are not giving us much to go with. 1 Quote
*Jess♥ Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 I think with comic books, people can get very passionate because there is a lot of love in the universe. it is like a whole group of family and friends and people want to see it do well. when something new comes along, a lot is at stake. If this movie does badly, it may damage the franchise and there is less chance for more money to be spent on producing more stories.I think we have come across a similar feeling when the guyver tv series came out. I personally feel this way about castlevania. it took a long long time before a game came out that I was happy with. in the end, lords of shadow 2 is that game for me. I know it's not the most popular but it hits all my sweet spots. also, I get very angry at the zelda games whenever they are released. I loved the 3rd game in that series and it seems like they have dragged it through the mud. mainly because it prevents me from reliving the magic that I felt back when I was a child.This is just how I feel but I think this could be a similar feeling for others. Quote
Matt Bellamy Posted April 20, 2015 Author Posted April 20, 2015 A look at 3 of the DC Cinematic universe costumes for Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman. Quote
guyverfanatic Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I am looking forward to this very much and I can't wait to see Ben Affleck as Batman! Quote
H222G981 Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing this.......I think... Quote
Matt Bellamy Posted July 11, 2015 Author Posted July 11, 2015 New trailer is up! THIS is what I was talking about in my previous post about all the hate. NOW we have a bit more plot and some character motivations. At least for Clark and Bruce. I am now much more optimistic for this movie. I still think it will no doubt have issues ( I mean, really everything does), but at least now we can see what direction they are going in. Quote
durendal Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 This explain the sad Batman. In actually, it's not Sad Batman, but Mad Batman. Kidding aside, I'm in the impression that they borrowed a bit from the Omac project, where Superman gets mind controlled? That's probably the reason why Superman was going on a rampage that incurred Mad Batman's wrath. So is Maxwell Lord in the movie? Will we see some neck twisting from the Amazon princess? You know, I like the sound of Mad Batman better. "I'm the Goddamn Mad Batman!!!!" Quote
Matt Bellamy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Posted July 28, 2015 so who is the bad guy? My guess? Luthor. I would bet he is manipulating things to make himself come out as a hero. Quote
Salkafar Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I'm in the impression that they borrowed a bit from the Omac project, where Superman gets mind controlled? That was 'Sacrifice', though, not 'the Omac project'. Quote
jerrygoodman Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Oh man, s***'s about to get real... Quote
H222G981 Posted December 1, 2015 Posted December 1, 2015 Why do Superman and Batman hate each other in this movie? Quote
Matt Bellamy Posted December 3, 2015 Author Posted December 3, 2015 First full trailer is up! Things happen! Stuff confirmed! Quote
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