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On Zoalords and Archanfel


Anxiety

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I'm re-reading the manga after more than a decade and have a few questions that I'm curious if people have any answers/theories for as I'm not sure the manga has any answers. I'm only up to chapter 140 or so (Agito is setting fire to Waferdanos and Sho just learned how to save Aptom from Cabraal's control.

Where did the Zoa-crystals come from? In Chapter 80, Balcus says the crystals were by "cleaving and cultivating one of Archanfel's Zoa-crystals" into the 11. I didn't think (but didn't really give an in-depth look) that Archanfel's battle form was any different in the flashback with the creators than it did in present day (as in, he didn't seem to have additional crystals prior to the 11). Did he have spare crystals lying around? Or are we using a different definition of cleave than I am used to and Balcus simply used Archanfel's crystal as a base for creating the others?

About Archanfel, what is up with his illness? It was caused by destroying the asteroid the Uranus sent to destroy the planet. But how does that work, why can't he recover? Could they use the Ark to heal him the way he used it to heal Imakarim? I don't understand how he could overexert himself and be useless for long periods of time for millennia but a severely injured, near death Imakarim could be fully healed. It would seem a Zoa-crystal is, in some way, tied to a Zoalord's life, although both he and Guyot surviving show a Zoalord's life isn't as asconnected to the crystal as I thought. Same with Waferdanos, though they could have been because he wasn't human. I certainly wouldn't expect Guyot to be able to so simply remove his crystal as Waferdanos did. I was also thinking a few other Zoalords were killed when their crystals were removed by Apollyon later in the series, but I could be misremembering that.

As far as crystals are concerned, do we know how Griselda's crystal was created? Did the scientist Agito kidnapped (can't think of his name) create it from scratch or did he have some inside knowledge of the Zoalords/Zoa-crystals to base it off of?

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The translation about the Zoa-crystal's might not be 100% accurate. That said, they were likely made from Archanphel's samples, but nothing that would have require amputation of his own Zoa-crystal. As well, Barcas was made into a Zoalord before he ever got access to a vast amount of knowledge from the control spheres, so there is some discrepancy about that quote exactly. The knowledge to make a full proper Zoa-crystal might be limited to himself. it's hard to say, since the rogue Zoalords give Guyot a "Dummy" crystal, even they might not know how to make one. And no, they do not have "spares" lying around, or Apollyon would be after those first.

As for what happened to Archanphel... Before the Creators left, they nearly crippled him with an attack, and THEN he forcefully used his full power to destroy the planetoid that they had sent to destroy Earth. Whatever they did to him, plus his over exertion, seems to be the cause of his need to rest for long periods. The entire time Archanphel spent in his bio-pod was only enough to allow him to rest... but the lingering damage from the Creators seems to be the actual problem. As long as he remains rested and charged, he seems to be ok... But as soon as he uses he powers, it drains him too much and whatever they did to him starts affecting him again. It is unknown if Barcas could do anything to help him... We've seen some of the Zoalords need to undergo adjustments and processing after strenuous use of their powers... But it is unknown if Archanphel will even let Barcas to even try to do anything.

As for Imakarum, his Zoa-crystal was simply badly cracked by Gigantic Dark, while he was already tired... And Imakarum was made differently than the other 11, so we don't exactly know by what process, or exactly how he is different... Especially since, if you believe Imakarum is Apollyon, he was not only fixed, but evolved and super charged by Archanphel and the Ark while in Archaphel's original Bio-pod.

From what we can gather about Zoa-crystals, is that they are like energy batteries for a Zoalord. Functionally, as long as one has power, that Zoalord is practically immortal. Like when Carleon had his crystal pulled from his head by Apollyon, he rapidly aged. This likely didn't happen to Guyot, as he was actually a fairly new Zoalord. The science around them is kinda weird. Waferdanos only used his Zoa-crystal to maintain his Human like form and use Zoalord like powers in the form. Once he removed his crystal, he returned to his original form as "King" of the "Forest". While Li Yentsui removed his own crystal and was still able to use his powers one last time.

And as for Griselda, her creator, Dr Hekkering was Cronos's #2 scientist and helped created some of the Zoalords and their Proto-types. So his Zoa-crystal is likely heavily based on what he knows from helping Barcas over the years.

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21 hours ago, Matt Bellamy said:

The translation about the Zoa-crystal's might not be 100% accurate.

That's a little insulting to the people who have put years and years into translating this material for the fanbase.  Rather than imply our work is inaccurate, you could ask for clarification.

This particular bit, I have personally checked and double checked using many different dictionary sources and looking from different angles. It's pretty clear, the 11 zoacrystals were made by taking a part of archanfel's own crystal and growing them into new ones, exactly as the translation says. It's been complained about over the years, how our adherence to accuracy makes it a little awkward to read. it's not fair to say something like that now.

アルカンフェルのゾアクリスタルから胚核の分割‐培養によって11個のレプリカが生み出され
by tissue-culturing the embryonic nucleus of archanfel's zoacrystal, 11 replicas were created.

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11 hours ago, Jess♥ said:

アルカンフェルのゾアクリスタルから胚核の分割‐培養によって11個のレプリカが生み出され
by tissue-culturing the embryonic nucleus of archanfel's zoacrystal, 11 replicas were created.

I want to start by apologizing, as I first brought up the idea of the translation being a bit off. My experience with translating has only ever come from high school and college courses on Latin and Japanese, so I only have a vague idea of what it's like, but I can understand the difficulty and time-consuming nature of it. Hell, I remember being on here nearly 20 years ago when new chapters were coming out and I believe someone either got a Chinese copy of the chapter they needed to translate to Japanese to translate to English or do it the other way around. That takes time and dedication. I appreciate the work that you and others have put in to allow me to read this story.

My confusion was because the version I have says they used "one of Archanfel's Zoa-crystals," which would mean he would have had at least two crystals. The translation you provided definitely clears it up. Thank you.

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Sorry, I'm a little sensitive about this, I take a lot of pride in the parts I worked on, since accuracy was always my primary concern in the bits that I did.  There's nothing wrong with asking for clarification and I do enjoy revisiting the work and exploring it some more. The original guyver manga is like a bible to me, I guess I could be considered a little obsessive over it. I'm always happy to be proven wrong of course, I'm capable of making a mistake, but I'm certainly not sloppy or careless.

Amica translated a lot of the chinese bits, we translated from Japanese afterwards. Durendal was very good at a conversational level understanding, I was obsessed with minutiae and checked on things like this.

I'm not sure if I addressed all the parts you're reading, I went to the bit where Hamilcar is talking about his meeting with Archanfel. Book 14, the panel with the development chambers on it, with the zoacrystals inside. I can check other parts for clarification if you like?  I think there is a little bit of ambiguity as to what archanfel's crystals are all over his body, and there could be room for a bit of shifting in the interpretation. The kanji used is embryo and nucleus, and are used within the word for 'ebryogenesis'. It could be considered akin to stem cells.

 

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On 2/19/2024 at 7:39 PM, Jess♥ said:

That's a little insulting to the people who have put years and years into translating this material for the fanbase.  Rather than imply our work is inaccurate, you could ask for clarification.

This particular bit, I have personally checked and double checked using many different dictionary sources and looking from different angles. It's pretty clear, the 11 zoacrystals were made by taking a part of archanfel's own crystal and growing them into new ones, exactly as the translation says. It's been complained about over the years, how our adherence to accuracy makes it a little awkward to read. it's not fair to say something like that now.

アルカンフェルのゾアクリスタルから胚核の分割‐培養によって11個のレプリカが生み出され
by tissue-culturing the embryonic nucleus of archanfel's zoacrystal, 11 replicas were created.

First of all, I said "MIGHT NOT be 100% correct" because as any translator knows, Japanese Translations to English are rarely ever 100% perfect. A word or two can have different context depending on who or what translates it. I may not have had my sources available when I made the post to try and translate it myself, but I was NOT wrong when I said that... As even you just translated it to something different.

So you literally just proved my point.

The newer translation seems to suggest it is closer to what I said. A sample was used. Not "Cleaving" of a Zoacrystal as originally stated.

Also, as a note, that translation was done a long long time ago. I can say without a doubt that I was not as good at drawing 10+ years ago. It's fairly safe to say that you and the Advocacy team were also not as good of translators as you are now... But it got the job done at the time. Looking back, you can't tell me there would be things you wouldn't change if you had the skills and knowledge you do now. It's in the past. Learn to live with the criticism, or go and change it if you can't.

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Yeah you're right, I was pretty sensitive about that. I did bring about more clarity with a fresh look at it. I don't know if that means it was inaccurate though, maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that. We are from different countries so I'll try to keep that in mind. The way I saw it was, even in the past, I put a lot of effort into checking different places and making sure it was accurate as possible. I don't think accurate is the right word, I think a better way to look at t might be, it didn't have the best context? I'm able to consider context better. since the new translation does say the same thing in my mind, it just places it in a new context that makes it easier for english speakers to understand the meaning.  The use of the word cleaving for example, it is referring to cell division, so it is correct, it just gave you the wrong impression. So clarification is good. I wlll concede that it gives you a more accurate idea, so this is semantics.

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