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Finished the OVA rewatch, observation/opinion thread (lotsa text!)


kenshin113
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Welp, finally got through all 12 eps! It was actually quite a bit of viewing because I watched the dubbed versions first (both US Renditions and Manga) then on a whim I decided to watch the original raws! Was definitely worth it, had a blast reliving some old memories :D

Raws for first six episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXFgiVsnRF0UAEjEHb3iQHA/videos

The raws for the second half can be found on Dailymotion by Googling the JP titles on here: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=675&page=25

- The majority of the Japanese titles used the format "Hook! Elaborative second chunk!" The US Renditions release sometimes stuck with this syntax (Terminal Battle! The Fall of Chronos Japan) and sometimes they just rolled it into one (Genesis of the Guyver); the Manga release, in contrast, kept the USR titles for the first six episodes but truncated the second half titles pretty noticeably. I will say, though, there's a stark quality about the Japanese title for episode five (戦慄!! ガイバー死す/Shudder!! Guyver Dies") that just... works.

- The font for the JP title cards is glowing red kanji/katakana. It's foreboding and I love it.

- The original ending sequences for episodes two and three end on shots of Guyver II and III respectively. I guess the English versions just reused the same sequence for the first six episodes?

- There are moments here and there in the English dubs that were unvoiced for some reason and it's really jarring when you see them in Japanese. They're mostly grunts/reaction noises but they really do add a lot; for instance, when Lisker flips over Sho and tosses him into the wall during their fight, you hear quite a bit of verbalization from Takeshi Kusao and Norio Wakamoto. That slow upwards panning shot of Guyver II works a lot better with Wakamoto's mocking laughter over it, same with Kusao's freaked out yell when firing the Megasmasher to finish Lisker off. Also, if you close your eyes when watching it really sounds like Trunks just can't catch a break from Cell.

- I'm not sure either of the Chronos mooks with accents (episode 2, episode 9) had Japanese dialects that warranted them. Not that I minded it any, it gave the scenes some color!

- Common to all versions but I always got a kick out of Sho's dramatic kick on Elegen being the only bit of meaningful offense he lands on Team Five until Agito bails him out and tells him how to roast Gaster. Dude was a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest until Guyver III showed up.

- Also common to all versions; Sho's dumbass friends. They're the best.

- The big Agito reveal in episode five has Sho kinda parrot what Makishima said (Makishima-san is... Chronos?); not exactly riveting dialogue, but it makes a touch more sense than having EN Sho act like he should have known all along for some reason.

- The original version of episode six has a decently lengthy recap sequence before the opening that I can't recall being in either of the domestic versions...?

- The fight with ZX-Tole, Sho, and Agito sounds drastically different depending on which version you watch. The Manga release has silence in the background, the US Renditions release has the first verse of Takeshi's Kusao's version of the OP as a backing track and the original Japanese has the second verse of Shinichi Ishihara's. I like the US Renditions one the best!

- The original version of Part II's OP is cut slightly differently.

- I don't have a damn clue how a hypothetical part III would have proceeded with Team Five long gone, even if they had been given a half-decent budget for the next run.

- Finally - and this is 100% subjective - I ended up preferring EN Sho to JP Sho. Agonized death screams aside, I felt like Tom Fahn managed to channel the terrified teenager part of Sho a lot better; in contrast, Takeshi Kusao comes off like a legit badass a lot of the time which would have worked in any show besides Guyver where the protag's about as far from a badass as they come, even with the super-powered alien armor. Like half the time when Fahn does battle cries it sounds like a kid trying REAL HARD to sound intimidating and it's absolutely perfect for the novice that he was.

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On 9/24/2021 at 12:16 AM, kenshin113 said:

Welp, finally got through all 12 eps! It was actually quite a bit of viewing because I watched the dubbed versions first (both US Renditions and Manga) then on a whim I decided to watch the original raws! Was definitely worth it, had a blast reliving some old memories :D

Raws for first six episodes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXFgiVsnRF0UAEjEHb3iQHA/videos

The raws for the second half can be found on Dailymotion by Googling the JP titles on here: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=675&page=25

- The majority of the Japanese titles used the format "Hook! Elaborative second chunk!" The US Renditions release sometimes stuck with this syntax (Terminal Battle! The Fall of Chronos Japan) and sometimes they just rolled it into one (Genesis of the Guyver); the Manga release, in contrast, kept the USR titles for the first six episodes but truncated the second half titles pretty noticeably. I will say, though, there's a stark quality about the Japanese title for episode five (戦慄!! ガイバー死す/Shudder!! Guyver Dies") that just... works.

- The font for the JP title cards is glowing red kanji/katakana. It's foreboding and I love it.

- The original ending sequences for episodes two and three end on shots of Guyver II and III respectively. I guess the English versions just reused the same sequence for the first six episodes?

- There are moments here and there in the English dubs that were unvoiced for some reason and it's really jarring when you see them in Japanese. They're mostly grunts/reaction noises but they really do add a lot; for instance, when Lisker flips over Sho and tosses him into the wall during their fight, you hear quite a bit of verbalization from Takeshi Kusao and Norio Wakamoto. That slow upwards panning shot of Guyver II works a lot better with Wakamoto's mocking laughter over it, same with Kusao's freaked out yell when firing the Megasmasher to finish Lisker off. Also, if you close your eyes when watching it really sounds like Trunks just can't catch a break from Cell.

- I'm not sure either of the Chronos mooks with accents (episode 2, episode 9) had Japanese dialects that warranted them. Not that I minded it any, it gave the scenes some color!

- Common to all versions but I always got a kick out of Sho's dramatic kick on Elegen being the only bit of meaningful offense he lands on Team Five until Agito bails him out and tells him how to roast Gaster. Dude was a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest until Guyver III showed up.

- Also common to all versions; Sho's dumbass friends. They're the best.

- The big Agito reveal in episode five has Sho kinda parrot what Makishima said (Makishima-san is... Chronos?); not exactly riveting dialogue, but it makes a touch more sense than having EN Sho act like he should have known all along for some reason.

- The original version of episode six has a decently lengthy recap sequence before the opening that I can't recall being in either of the domestic versions...?

- The fight with ZX-Tole, Sho, and Agito sounds drastically different depending on which version you watch. The Manga release has silence in the background, the US Renditions release has the first verse of Takeshi's Kusao's version of the OP as a backing track and the original Japanese has the second verse of Shinichi Ishihara's. I like the US Renditions one the best!

- The original version of Part II's OP is cut slightly differently.

- I don't have a damn clue how a hypothetical part III would have proceeded with Team Five long gone, even if they had been given a half-decent budget for the next run.

- Finally - and this is 100% subjective - I ended up preferring EN Sho to JP Sho. Agonized death screams aside, I felt like Tom Fahn managed to channel the terrified teenager part of Sho a lot better; in contrast, Takeshi Kusao comes off like a legit badass a lot of the time which would have worked in any show besides Guyver where the protag's about as far from a badass as they come, even with the super-powered alien armor. Like half the time when Fahn does battle cries it sounds like a kid trying REAL HARD to sound intimidating and it's absolutely perfect for the novice that he was.

Were ya able to find the U.S Renditions Dubs of episodes 7-12 online, or did ya have the tapes?

The U.S Renditions dub tapes have the unique Lisker & Agito ending shots. It's unfortunate that Gravarthel didn't include them in his uploads, though it might've been an oversight on his part. 

I love those accents used in the dub, especially the Scottish Cronos Soldier! XD (I've memorized that entire scene BTW)

Yeah, Yamamoto, Aota, and Nakanishi are pretty funny! XD I wish they showed up in the Manga.

I also don't how they could've worked in Aptom gaining his new forms after his second fight with Sho with Team 5 outta the picture. Though I assume we would've seen Murakami telling them about his past and Sho would've fought Guyot along side Agito & Murakami. Then the stuff that happened in the basement would've played out.

Agreed, Tom Fahn's voice and performance fit Sho very well!

Edited by UltraGuyver351
Fixing a spacing error.
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On 9/28/2021 at 11:57 AM, UltraGuyver351 said:

Were ya able to find the U.S Renditions Dubs of episodes 7-12 online, or did ya have the tapes?

The U.S Renditions dub tapes have the unique Lisker & Agito ending shots. It's unfortunate that Gravarthel didn't include them in his uploads, though it might've been an oversight on his part. 

I love those accents used in the dub, especially the Scottish Cronos Soldier! XD (I've memorized that entire scene BTW)

Yeah, Yamamoto, Aota, and Nakanishi are pretty funny! XD I wish they showed up in the Manga.

I also don't how they could've worked in Aptom gaining his new forms after his second fight with Sho with Team 5 outta the picture. Though I assume we would've seen Murakami telling them about his past and Sho would've fought Guyot along side Agito & Murakami. Then the stuff that happened in the basement would've played out.

Agreed, Tom Fahn's voice and performance fit Sho very well!

Tape! We rented them from a Blockbuster a looooong time ago and copied 'em with a second VCR; wasn't perfect, but hey, it worked! Didn't know that about the Lister/Agito credit sequences, we never bothered recording any of the ED's after the first episode so little surprise that I forgot!

The occasional liberties taken with the dub honestly helped it in some regards; the accents were one thing, but a few of their dialogue tweaks were great too! Going back to Sho's school friends, the EN version pretty much changed them all for the better; I still remember this fantastic exchange in the first episode, for instance.

"You know it was no simple accident. That truck was driven into the ground like some kind of stake, like something was pounding down on it."

"You're kidding!"

"No. And usually trucks don't do that."

The localization also did wonders for Sho's response to Agito when he picked up the phone in episode five. Fahn's hilariously bitchy "I've called five times!"  is a thing of magic and all the better for being 100% in character for how frustrated his character is right then.

The studio miiiiiight have been able to tweak the story to give Aptom a new battle form (maybe Relics Point used data from Team Five during his revdevelopment and he just didn't use those abilities against Sho for whatever reason) but everything kinda falls apart when it comes to the time-skip; Neo ZX-Tole showing up for his grudge match against Aptom is pretty key to that whole sequence, and I'm not sure who could have taken his place. If they really wanted a cop-out, I suppose they could have had Guyot or Barcus engineer a second Team Five off-screen and just have had Aptom kill them off somehow.

That original dub was honestly far better than it had any right to be. While some of the tertiary voices could be iffy (Lisker, human ZX-Tole and Aptom don't sound tremendously different from one another, for instance) but the leads were pitch perfect. The US Renditions versions of Sho, Tetsuro, and Agito still hold up even today which is shocking for a dub that was commissioned in 1992. I could have done without the heavy processing on the Guyver voices - I swear, they just got worse as the show went on - but the actual acting was generally pretty darn solid even with the few misses they had in there. I'd gotten so used to original Tetsuro's histrionics that the 2005 version just felt phoned in a lot of the time.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/30/2021 at 12:56 AM, kenshin113 said:

Tape! We rented them from a Blockbuster a looooong time ago and copied 'em with a second VCR; wasn't perfect, but hey, it worked! Didn't know that about the Lister/Agito credit sequences, we never bothered recording any of the ED's after the first episode so little surprise that I forgot!

The occasional liberties taken with the dub honestly helped it in some regards; the accents were one thing, but a few of their dialogue tweaks were great too! Going back to Sho's school friends, the EN version pretty much changed them all for the better; I still remember this fantastic exchange in the first episode, for instance.

"You know it was no simple accident. That truck was driven into the ground like some kind of stake, like something was pounding down on it."

"You're kidding!"

"No. And usually trucks don't do that."

The localization also did wonders for Sho's response to Agito when he picked up the phone in episode five. Fahn's hilariously bitchy "I've called five times!"  is a thing of magic and all the better for being 100% in character for how frustrated his character is right then.

The studio miiiiiight have been able to tweak the story to give Aptom a new battle form (maybe Relics Point used data from Team Five during his revdevelopment and he just didn't use those abilities against Sho for whatever reason) but everything kinda falls apart when it comes to the time-skip; Neo ZX-Tole showing up for his grudge match against Aptom is pretty key to that whole sequence, and I'm not sure who could have taken his place. If they really wanted a cop-out, I suppose they could have had Guyot or Barcus engineer a second Team Five off-screen and just have had Aptom kill them off somehow.

That original dub was honestly far better than it had any right to be. While some of the tertiary voices could be iffy (Lisker, human ZX-Tole and Aptom don't sound tremendously different from one another, for instance) but the leads were pitch perfect. The US Renditions versions of Sho, Tetsuro, and Agito still hold up even today which is shocking for a dub that was commissioned in 1992. I could have done without the heavy processing on the Guyver voices - I swear, they just got worse as the show went on - but the actual acting was generally pretty darn solid even with the few misses they had in there. I'd gotten so used to original Tetsuro's histrionics that the 2005 version just felt phoned in a lot of the time.

 

(Sorry bout the late reply.)

I also noticed that in the VHS credits of episode 6, Natsuki didn't have an ending shot. Since she didn't appear in said episode, that makes sense.

Agreed, "I've called five times!!" is great and I sadly often forget about it. I think it's because the first angry Sho quote that comes to my mind is "You think I'm caught, but I'm free to fight!! I will never give up my life and surrender to Cronos!!"

Yeah, that seemed like the most likely scenario. They may have been able to bring in Neo ZX-Tole by having him being created using the data of all of the original Team 5 by Balcus.

I thought Gary Dubin did a decent job voicing his characters, even though he didn't really do anything to differentiate their normal forms voices. Though I love how hammy he got in Eps 6 & 12, which helped make his performances as ZX-Tole & Aptom stand out. While I was watching the 2005 series, I was so used to how the OVA pronounced the characters names (the human names that is), that I still go by those pronunciations; even if the 2005 series technically used the correct ways to say them. Lowell Bartholomee's Tetsuro voice fit the character reasonably well, though I think his performance started out kinda mediocre and got better as the dub went on. I liked how Luci Christian seemed to take influence from Melissa Fahn's performance when voicing Mizuki, and she still made her performance stand out in her own way.

Overall, I legitimately like the 2005 series. That said, I don't like Sho, Tetsuro, and Mizuki's redesigns. Sho's redesign screams "Stock protagonist" when his Manga and OVA series design was already great as it is. Not to mention that he and Mizuki got their hair colors superfluously swapped and Tetsuro's new hairstyle didn't work for him. 

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On 11/12/2021 at 3:59 PM, UltraGuyver351 said:

(Sorry bout the late reply.)

I also noticed that in the VHS credits of episode 6, Natsuki didn't have an ending shot. Since she didn't appear in said episode, that makes sense.

Agreed, "I've called five times!!" is great and I sadly often forget about it. I think it's because the first angry Sho quote that comes to my mind is "You think I'm caught, but I'm free to fight!! I will never give up my life and surrender to Cronos!!"

Yeah, that seemed like the most likely scenario. They may have been able to bring in Neo ZX-Tole by having him being created using the data of all of the original Team 5 by Balcus.

I thought Gary Dubin did a decent job voicing his characters, even though he didn't really do anything to differentiate their normal forms voices. Though I love how hammy he got in Eps 6 & 12, which helped make his performances as ZX-Tole & Aptom stand out. While I was watching the 2005 series, I was so used to how the OVA pronounced the characters names (the human names that is), that I still go by those pronunciations; even if the 2005 series technically used the correct ways to say them. Lowell Bartholomee's Tetsuro voice fit the character reasonably well, though I think his performance started out kinda mediocre and got better as the dub went on. I liked how Luci Christian seemed to take influence from Melissa Fahn's performance when voicing Mizuki, and she still made her performance stand out in her own way.

Overall, I legitimately like the 2005 series. That said, I don't like Sho, Tetsuro, and Mizuki's redesigns. Sho's redesign screams "Stock protagonist" when his Manga and OVA series design was already great as it is. Not to mention that he and Mizuki got their hair colors superfluously swapped and Tetsuro's new hairstyle didn't work for him. 

No worries :D

I liked that line! Part of it is that it's genuinely hot blooded and anime AF but yet got subverted minutes later when Enzyme gladly did his thing. In any other show that probably would have been a setup for a triumphant moment of overcoming the odds at the end, but this is Guyver, Sho was a complete novice and Genzo really, really hated him.

Maybe they could've had the new Neo ZX-Tole pissed at Aptom for stepping on the pride of Chronos (and to be perfectly honest, he'd probably hate him for being an uppity Lost Number too) instead of the 'you killed my team and took my leg'? Either way, that fight's gotta happen to setup Gigantic.

The 2005 dub is technically better in a number of ways - the ADR process has come a long way since 1992 - but I still like a lot of the performances/direction from the 1992 dub. I agree that 2005 Tetsuro's voice was actually pretty well cast but he seemed wayyyyy too chill a lot of the time considering the situations he found himself in; the overdramatic reads from the original OVA actually worked better, in that regard. Overall I agree that it's a great show that's far more faithful to the manga but I do like the 80's aesthetic of the older character designs
 

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Thanks! ^^

Good point; his death may not have been permanent, but Sho still ate is words.

Yeah, I can see that.

I admit I also enjoy a lot of older dubs like the Guyver OVA series; even though things have come a long way since then. The cheesiness makes my day!

Ah, I understand now; he did sound needlessly blasé at times. 

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