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Why is Guyver so underrated

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It always bothered me to see that Guyver was not taken as serious as the other Anime's which they have hundreds of episodes and remake etc. I don't get it Guyver was so popular and it has an amazing story and such incredible art work but, why they never gave the fans what they want to see, like creating more episodes to follow the rest of the story. If I was a billionaire I would pay who ever can continue the story (original anime serious 12 episodes). Just saying because Guyver has been a huge part of my childhood and adult life. I was never into Anime but, Guyver just changed my life and I never saw anything close to it.  

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Actually, Guyver isn't that great. The characterization is really superficial (seriously. What do we know about, for instance, Mizuki apart from her being a designated love interest slash damsel in distress? What is her purpose in the story?) the focus is and remains on a few core characters who are for all intents and purposes immortal, the pace is insanely slow, and there is no clear end goal for either heroes or villains. The way war is waged between the various parties always ends up the exact same way - duels between super-powerful warriors. There are no complex, long-term tactics. Chronos doesn't seem to know better than to send newer and stronger warriors in that nevertheless always fail in the end.

...Truthfully, I don't think Takaya has an end-game either.

The only exception in all of this is Guyot, who does have a clear end-goal which he needs to meet before his time is up. More focus should have been placed on that.

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2 hours ago, Salkafar said:

Actually, Guyver isn't that great. The characterization is really superficial (seriously. What do we know about, for instance, Mizuki apart from her being a designated love interest slash damsel in distress? What is her purpose in the story?) the focus is and remains on a few core characters who are for all intents and purposes immortal, the pace is insanely slow, and there is no clear end goal for either heroes or villains. The way war is waged between the various parties always ends up the exact same way - duels between super-powerful warriors. There are no complex, long-term tactics. Chronos doesn't seem to know better than to send newer and stronger warriors in that nevertheless always fail in the end.

...Truthfully, I don't think Takaya has an end-game either.

The only exception in all of this is Guyot, who does have a clear end-goal which he needs to meet before his time is up. More focus should have been placed on that.

okay and you also mean to say that 'this guyver series' is, even with the faults (present or not) you have mentioned, isn't a universe better than retarded farts like one piece or naruto? 

Frankly, Guyver is an unfortunate soul. I searched for best anime ever and came up with alchemist series. I watched it and it was good, but if that is 'the greatest anime of all time' then alchemist is garbage. Predictable story line and too much unnecessary drama. but then again, may be that is the best anime/manga can deliver. 
In comparison to great movies or tv series, anime series are as dumb as f-u-c-k . 
 

Edited by Goku

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Essentially, Guyver is an old series, and does not fit with the current extremes of Genre's that we have now. It lacks a lot of things that make current manga/anime popular, because of its more old fashioned style.

I've always said, if the 2005 TV series, had been more like the old 12 part OAV and actually have been bloody and gore filled like other series today, it would probably have a better reputation. For the wrong reason of course, but it would be better known.

But it didn't, and neither does the manga. And Takaya, with his random release schedule and low page counts, really does nothing for newer fans, and only pisses off older ones.

Add all that together, with a plot that is not easy to follow if you don't start from the start, ( ie 32 volumes), makes a lot of people walk away.

As a Guyver fan since 1996, I can tell you that while the Guyver is my favorite series, I am also fully aware of how great is also isn't, which is defined by many factors including the age of the story and how the creator himself handles it. Sure, once you start learning the lore and getting in deep with the plot, it is good, but that is sometimes too much of the current generation of anime fans.

I mean, if you ask a lot of 30-ish anime fans if they remember "The Guyver", you will get a few responses, but mostly that they remember that really bloody version back near the beginning of the US Anime industry, because back then, there wasn't much to watch. I still figure the only reason the 2005 TV series was made, was because of ADV films, which was run by guys in their 30's who remembered the 12 part OAV (or at least the first 6 eps) and thought "Yeah! That was cool. We should reboot that!"... And it ended up costing them, a lot, as it was a failure.

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2 hours ago, Goku said:

okay and you also mean to say that 'this guyver series' is, even with the faults (present or not) you have mentioned, isn't a universe better than retarded farts like one piece or naruto? 

I wouldn't know - I never made it beyond the first episodes of those illustrious series.

But to be honest, I really don't know. Some series are character-driven, some are plot-driven. Which is Guyver? And that's the problem. The characters are not very strong and the plot is both simple and slow. I mean, obviously Apollyon was added to shake things up, but Takaya is not making the most of it! A writer can draw out a story by dropping tantalizing hints which he exploits to a shameless degree, but even that doesn't happen.

A good story - as a very wise man who also did not manage to stick to the tenet once said - has a beginning, a middle and an end. Like Star Wars. The beginning - the heroes and villains are introduced, the heroes get an early victory. The middle - the villains strike back, the heroes are in dire straits. The end - the heroes overcome the difficulty and manage to attain their ultimate victory. We've had the beginning and the middle.

In fact we've seen this story pattern several times in Guyver. Volume 1 is an almost perfect version.

But once things keep continuing, once it becomes a serial, you're going to have to invest more in characterization and that never happened.

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3 hours ago, Goku said:

okay and you also mean to say that 'this guyver series' is, even with the faults (present or not) you have mentioned, isn't a universe better than retarded farts like one piece or naruto? 

Frankly, Guyver is an unfortunate soul. I searched for best anime ever and came up with alchemist series. I watched it and it was good, but if that is 'the greatest anime of all time' then alchemist is garbage. Predictable story line and too much unnecessary drama. but then again, may be that is the best anime/manga can deliver. 
In comparison to great movies or tv series, anime series are as dumb as f-u-c-k . 
 

In most cases of Shounen series, Guyver does have a more in depth world set up. However, the problem with that, is for newer audiences who only pick up the series from a volume of random manga or an issue of Shounen Ace.

See, the genius thing about these "retarded farts" ( as you put it) is that someone can pick up where a series is at, a lot quicker because of the way they do their story telling. They don't have to wade through years of reference material to get what is going on in the most recent arc. If they liked that arc, sure they can go back and read the old stuff. And if they want to see more of the arc they found, they are weekly series, and their curiosity is filled a lot quicker. In terms of manga entertainment, there is something to be said about "Quantity over Quality", and weekly series fill that need much, much easier.

Let's be honest, the Guyver series has only 1 major thing working in its favor that others do not - Monster designs. Takaya is a master of making different and original monster designs. I am still shocked that he didn't stick to a major 5 or 6 designs like some others would have done. Almost every volume has at least 1, sometimes 5 or more. Plus Aptom and the Guyvers still look good despite their ages.

And with Shounen series. since they are weekly things, and volumes come out a lot quicker, they are usually always easier to find and/or stocked by stores. Guyver is supposed to be a monthly series... But hasn't gone over 16 pages in years, and is most commonly a 10 page release. Most monthly series range from 20-30 pages a month, consistently. This adds up to a long while for a new volume to come out.

To put it into a food metaphor, Shounen series are like fast food. Not the best quality, but still good/decent, fast and cheap to pick up. The Guyver is something like Caviar. Some people REALLY like it, while other don't even bother, and the availability isn't great and is extremely expensive for the little amount you get.

So if someone offered the public 4 decent/good meals a month at a low price, that while it may not be every ones favorite thing, still provides the "nourishment" for entertainment they need... Then someone else offers them a cracker with Caviar on it once a month, but sometimes won't deliver the next month. Or the next. Which do you think the majority of the public would choose?

*edit*

I guess I should also note that primarily Anime is FOR KIDS. So really complex plots and characters are not required. So calling them "dumb" or "dumber" than some great TV series is fairly accurate. They are dumbed down for THEIR AUDIENCE. Shounen series are not clearly made for you or myself, and yet I find a few of them entertaining enough to watch. that's like compairing Steak to all the sugary treats I had around me as a kid. Completely different audiences.

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Either way, it's favorite amine/manga of all time. It was the first one I properly got into.  it's not the most gripping  or smartest, but to me it's the coolest

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3 hours ago, Gazham said:

Either way, it's favorite amine/manga of all time. It was the first one I properly got into.  it's not the most gripping  or smartest, but to me it's the coolest

I agree! This is my first and favorite manga. 

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4 hours ago, Matt Bellamy said:

 

I guess I should also note that primarily Anime is FOR KIDS. So really complex plots and characters are not required. So calling them "dumb" or "dumber" than some great TV series is fairly accurate. They are dumbed down for THEIR AUDIENCE. Shounen series are not clearly made for you or myself, and yet I find a few of them entertaining enough to watch. that's like compairing Steak to all the sugary treats I had around me as a kid. Completely different audiences.

oh man, why did you have to say that anime is for kids primarily. I was very content with my bubble that i had above average intelligence and that is why found these series so straight forward. 
Please take that back:biggrin: because i would like to think that i am watching something that is serious and not aimed at kids. 

But coming back to why I like guyver. I like it because guyver is perhaps the only series i have seen where the hero, who has a lot of power available, isn't un-killable or holding back in battles. 
watching naruto, i always thought that man why can't naruto just do away with punks early and fast with his most powerful attacks. I found the same problem with cowboy bebop. The 4 protagonists always have something up their sleeve and are never pushed to full capacity. They always outsmart their opponents and rarely put a foot wrong that has lasting consequence. 
With guyver, they come into battle and sometimes blast away enemeies with megasmasher. But sometimes that megasmasher doesn't work. They get their back sides kicked and have to come back with another plan, some other day, with some permanent losses such as show's father. or the creator ship perhaps. 
WHen i look at for example, street fighter. I always think that why is ryu or ken or bison holding back their big attacks. Sometimes making fights unnecessarily tough or prolonged. 
ANd lets not even talk about marvel or dc. Superman holds back in all battles. So does flash and other people. 
 

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1 hour ago, Goku said:

oh man, why did you have to say that anime is for kids primarily. I was very content with my bubble that i had above average intelligence and that is why found these series so straight forward. 
Please take that back:biggrin: because i would like to think that i am watching something that is serious and not aimed at kids. 

Whoops. Meant to say SHOUNEN series are for kids, as there are certainly Anime for older audiences. All snark aside, comparing them to "Great Movie or TV Series" still doesn't make sense.

And while I understand Guyver is great for YOU (as it is for me, probably a lot more), understanding why it is not for other people is a healthy thing to know.

As for what "you like about Guyver over other series"... Guyver does that "Not using you most powerful weapon right away" a lot as well. Granted, as someone who has mentioned earlier to never have read the manga fully, you will not know that it has happened a lot. WAY more times then they have ever done their most powerful attack right away. Plus, the Guyver is a series that has disposable mooks that can die in one hit very easily, but anytime they are fighting someone actually powerful, they still start off small before a big finish.

 

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I have a dream.

That one day we'll get a Guyver the Bioboosted Armor video game!

 

Edited by Apollyon

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And no one has touched upon the fact that Guyver is underrated (or may be not underrated at all, it may even deserve its current state) simply because the story doesn't go anywhere. People grow up. Get old and die. They need to do stuff quickly. 

Guyver's creator seems ot have a different idea altogether. No amount of details or whatever, justifies this amount of inertia.

Edited by Goku

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57 minutes ago, Apollyon said:

I have a dream.

That one day we'll get a Guyver the Bioboosted Armor video game!

 

you mean a good guyver video game. Otherwise, you could easily, and most probably, end with what happened to the likes of Superman etc. 

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8 hours ago, Apollyon said:

I have a dream.

That one day we'll get a Guyver the Bioboosted Armor video game!

 

I really hope so

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7 hours ago, Goku said:

And no one has touched upon the fact that Guyver is underrated (or may be not underrated at all, it may even deserve its current state) simply because the story doesn't go anywhere. People grow up. Get old and die. They need to do stuff quickly. 

Guyver's creator seems ot have a different idea altogether. No amount of details or whatever, justifies this amount of inertia.

I agree, one of the things that makes us the fans a little disappointed is that the story is taking too long. For some reason I feel that we are getting closer to the end because, the Zoalords are getting eliminated slowly. Therefore there will not remain any only if the series keeps making new characters. 

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I think it is underrated solely due to lack of release. If it could be pumped out, even at 10 pages consistently a month it would flourish a bit more. BUT in the US it isn't at all popular and wouldn't be if it were released regularly. I think in the US it had its time in the 90's, which is unfortunate because it really is an awesome manga. The potential is there for sure... but if the creator doesn't care enough to keep up, why should readers really?  

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I honestly don't mind anything about Guyver. I'm an artist myself and struggle with mental health issues. I'm not unusual amongst my peers in that respect. I consume their blogs and galleries as and when they are updated, I'm just happy when they finish something and if they lose their mojo for a few months or even years I'm no poorer. I dunno what the difference is between Takaya and creators who pump out dozens of pages a month, but I'm no more entitled to an eight side Guyver update every four weeks than I am to a bunch of dakkadakka thread update every time I log in, and as the spectacle unfolds I feel privileged to observe it :)

That said, I totally get that it's a difficult series for new, Anglophonic readers, accustomed to series with release schedules more akin to Batman & retail shelf space in larger cities. I do readings and voice acting for some dyslexic friends as a vocal exercise, and over the coming weeks I'm going to try some Guyver advocacy on one who fondly remembers Mutronics :D 

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I personally love that guyver not like Naruto or dragon ball,

many will agree with this but,
I would not like to be a weekly manga with idiots characters, such as the shonenjump, HOWEVER I would like that we give more material as a spinof guyver,

something like the story of the creation of timesheets or stories, what if something like and if the creators ubiesen guyver controlled to zero,

but at the same time I think it's okay not be as famous today because we could end up with stupid stories like not,

guyver cowboys in space, 13603460_1108417875897307_93487895555014

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Well Guyver is my no.2 of all-time favourite manga/anime (Berserk is no.1). Back in 80s and 90s it had a chance to bloom and become all-time-greatest, but Takaya's slow pace wasted its potential.. I have more faith seeing Berserk ending, than Guyver.

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It's kind of funny, now that I've started getting into the series, comparing Guyver to JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Both of them started at about the same time, both creators are about the same age, but JJBA moves along quite a bit faster and kind of exploded in popularity, while Guyver stayed fairly small and cultish.

It's an interesting contrast, I have to say.

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There are three problems to explore. Guyver is very.....very.....very generic. When I say generic....there is nothing more generic than a high school boy throwing on a suit and beating monsters out of their misery.

Guyver is underrated because it is lacking. The story is always pretty much the same. It starts out....

  • Sho becomes the Guyver
  • Sho learns how to use the Guyver
  • Sho learns how to kill zoanoids
  • Sho kills zoanoids
  • Sho gets another power boost aka The Gigantic
  • Sho goes on to kill more zoanoids

So on and so forth. The series really doesn't offer anything new to anyone. If anything it probably has a hard time competing with superior anime series and not just that.

The major thing is with any anime/ manga or Guyver is that, both have  Marvel and DC to deal with in the West. Not just the comics, but movies and shows as well. As time goes on, American TV continues to improve.

Another primary thing is.....Guyver lacks DEMAND.

Why? Because there are better stories out there. Does this means the Guyver sucks? No...it just means it needs improvement.

 

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Guyver is underrated because it blew its chance of wider popularity very early on.

Mutronics / The Guyver from 1991 was so bad 2 things happened:

1) One of the producers felt it was so bad he made Guyver Dark Hero as a thank you to the fans.

2) It's primary box office actor ignores it's existence and doesn't like to talk about it. It also is a screw you to Mark Hamill fans as he's depicted as the face of the Guyver on the cover but instead is pushed to the side for an actor who plays a very crappy version of Sean who is replaced in the next movie.... and then turned into a bug so bad it dies after zoa-forming.....

 

So if you talk to anyone about Guyver and bringing it to a wider customer base that there is what happened the last time it touched the wider customer base. Yes there are hard core Guyver fans, I'm one of them and I pray for the day that enough time has based to bury that memory. But in the end it's there.

 

What Guyver needs is that the next time someone takes it up, they do what the US movies done, introduce their own Guyvers and not do what the 2005 anime done and stick like glue to the comics after a certain point. Make it interesting so the fan base is happy and new people don't have to venture into other Guyver stories to find out the basics.

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I think the best chance of "reviving" Guyver to Western audiences is Bat In The Sun. If they featured Guyver in one of their Super Power Beat Down videos, it would be the best thing for it in this day and age, in my opinion.

 

 

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That would be good for getting someone interested. The only problem with "Super Power Beat Down" is it's a fan vote. So no matter what they put it up against, it would be beaten by a more popular main stream cartoon / anime. 

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