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The Seventh Doctor

The Most Evil Villian I've Ever Encountered

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I've come across many vlians but none have topped this guy.

 

ViolenceJackOAV11.jpg


Slum King - In a world where the stong rule he is the strongest.

He is the main antagonist of Go Nagai's Violence Jack which also happens to be the darkest manga I've ever read. He rules over the ruins of the Kanto area of japan after it was deveistated by the Kanto Hell Quake, since that event Kanto has become seperated from the mainland and still undergoes minier quakes from time to time making the land very unstayable and was abandoned by the japanese government. It has now become a lawless land ruled by the strongest and worst of mankind. Slum King has forged his empire in this place, his has been able to band many of the loose gangs of thugs in kanto to form his own personal army and gathered enough wealth to bribe politicians on the mainland to inport weapons and goods for his empire.

Slum King was born with a uniqu birth distorder that granted him much more muscle mass then that of any normal human child (he ripped his way out of his mothers womb) and no skin. As an adulte he stands over 2 meters tall and his strength as grown with him. However his great strength comes with a price, his muscles are too strong and would crush his own body if they are not constantly used. To counter this he wears a suite of armour made of iron plates over a centimeter thick, the chest plate is twice as heavey as the over pieces of armour, the horns on the helmet are solid and even his facemask is made of thick iron. He wears this armour at all time even when sleeping yet it dosent hinder his movement in the slitest and Slum King can easily move faster then any normal person can see. His weapon of choice is a Horse Slayer style katana thought the handle has been changed for a iron bare because it was to weak. It would also seem that he has psychic powers such as telekenisis and telekinetic blast. Also any sword that touches his armour is destroid (even if it was not swoung with enough force to do so).

In Violence Jack every horrible act a human can inflict on another is presented and Slum King is more then happy to inflict all of them on any man, woman or child that crossess him. for example too slaves that tried to runaway from his restaurant in slumtown where hunted down and had their arms amd legs cut of off and their tounges cut out. They then have pathetic posthetics attached to the stumps so they could walk on all fours, Slum King then keeps them as pets who he abuses at his leasier. He will even (if he feels like it) throw them into dog fighting rings to be bitten untill they nearly die. I should point out this is only a drop of blood in the ocean of sins he comites.

 

Spoiler!
At the end of the manga it is revealed that he is in fact Demon Lord Zennon!

 

453451-zenon_large.jpg

Does anyone know someone worse.

Edited by Azagro Scar-Forge

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Oh he does bring some fond memories of villains I enjoyed hating. There are a select few, some real life ones like Stalin being more horrible than fiction, then again one of my person favorite's is Pheaton from Exosquad. For a saturday morning cartoon character, he somehow makes some of the more memorable villains on film and tv look like chumps.

Let's see, an eight feet tall Neo-Sapien (New Man) He is is stronger than five men, but that is not what he's famous for, as he rarely ever fights. His intelligence and charisma are is strengths. Phaeton managed to patiently gain power after betraying his own people to survive. He then gained political power and government on Mars. He then patiently planned out and built up an army, tricked the human interstellar Exofleet to wipe out the pirates while he swiftly took over Earth, Venus Earth and Mars. He enslaved humanity, nearly destroyed it's hope, exofleat, which became nothing more than a weak fugitive tattered fleet. He enslaved humanity, and started brutalizing them into extinction. He proved to be as big a survivor and selfish as Guyot, and eventually started to go insane after some setbacks and critical injury (from falling off the tallest mountain on Mars and later lava no less). He managed to hold on to power, eventually disregarding his own species life, eventually all life in the solar system, building doomsday devices, and killing his own generals and replacing them with clones. He even began hideous experiments to replace his own species with superior thinkers and mismatched chimera warriors until he also disregarded them. His madness new no bounds, and he was single handed responsible for wiping out most of the life in the solar system with the war he started. He held on to power for a long time despite limited numbers, and to this day, I cannot think of any villain who was more responsible for death in such a few short years when compared to say, characters on Dune who took centuries to pull off the same feats. He even persisted despite a slow painful illness eating away at his mind and body. Crazy thing is, he nearly won at every turn too...

Phaeton(life-support).jpg

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Hmm.... Hitler?

Loosely based. To fairly different in tons of ways, actually more Three Dimensional than Hitler. Also, he notably thinks art is worthless. 

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If we're talking about comic book villains, in terms of body count the Anti-Monitor has no equals.

 

But while he was evil, he was pretty clinical about it. He wasn't twisted - he'd always been evil. He would kill you and everyone you loved, but not for fun - just because he wanted you dead.

 

Pure evil, pure evil... hmmm...

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Slum King is kind of like the Joker in that he's unbound, there is no line that he wont cross. I dont posting about some of the stuff he dose because its well sick. Go Nagai really out did himself on this one.

 

I agree that the Anti-Monitor is very evil, I suppose you have to deside whats more evil, coldly killing millions just to achive your goal or torturing some one without mercy just for fun.

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Remember Owl man in one of the DC movies? He at first seems like just another evil Batman counterpart until you learn about his plans to wipe out all existence... everything, all universes/realities, thus all life. He's voiced by James Woods in a oddly charming, logical, and eerily distant manner.

"First I'll Kill you, then, ...everyone else"

His motive for wiping everything out? Because he wants to make a decision that actually has a solid effect on reality. Whatever decisions one makes, someone out there in a different universe has already made the opposite. Thus there are infinite universes based of all decisions anyone at any point made. So his rationale is that by destroying it all, he made the one decision no one could replicate or deviate from. Note, it's not to be evil, it's not to serve a purpose, or even a real goal. It's simply so it fits a single logic he's devised.

955572-the_evil_owlman.jpg

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I think I found a guy who appone reflection may be worse then Slum King. God from Demon Lord Dante.

God_%28Go_Nagai%29.jpg

In the story he's was an evil space being who demanded that the humans living on Earth worship him. When they didn't, he burned the city of Sodom and unleashed his minions to attack its people (one would burn his victimes with a fire that would reserct them only for them to burn again and again while another would cut them into piece but they could not die, forever suffering the pain of their wounds) , However God's had inadvertently given the humans of Sodom a way to fight back, those of strong enough will could absorbe Gods power and merge with objects around them, becoming what we know call demon(the main character merges with a futuristic jet fighter, a Pteranodon and Tyrannosaurus rex to turn into a giant demon). When this happend God changed his plan and destroyed the humans other great city Gomorrah by flooding it (the humans who servived became allies of the demon and their decendes became the modern Satanists). Then God split himself up into pieces and inserted himself into apes, becoming modern man as a result. He further becomes even more of a bastard when it is revealed at the end that the entire war between God and demons was done on purpose just because it was entertaining to him.

In Devilman hes not much better, God seeded are world with life then left it to develop. When he came back to earth during the time of the dinosaurs he found that a race called demons had evolved. God thought they where ugly and unworthy so he set about exterminating them. But one of Gods angels Lucifer thought that God had no right to so, The demons where living creature that had just as much right to live as any other so he allied himself with the demons to fight against God.

Edited by AdolphusStrigoi

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On a more human level, Herr Starr from 'Preacher' is a real bastard. He was a policeman, but was recruited into a secret organization which exists to preserve the bloodline of Jesus Christ on Earth. As it turns out, Jesus and Mary Magdalene were actually married and had children before he was crucified, and their descendants survive until this day. Sounds all right, doesn't it? Well... no. The organization does it only because they believe that, sooner or later, Jesus' descendants will develop the same powers he had, and they want to control him to change the world to their ends. As absurd as this is - even a very orthodox believer will realize Jesus' abilities certainly didn't stem from his genetics - the way they ensure the holy bloodline is not 'tainted' is downright insane: they simply don't allow the descendants to breed with anyone outside their family. Needless to say, the current generation is completely degenerate, barely capable of speech - and nothing like a Messiah.

Starr, realizing this, instead decides to simply utilize the organization itself, eliminating anyone in his way to get where he wants to be. At first, he seemed like a clinical type - he fought for order, because he wished to organize the world, to save it from chaos. But gradually, his goals degenerate - along with his body, as he gets mutilated worse and worse in his struggle with the Preacher - until all he wants is revenge, and sacrifices even his most loyal followers to this end.

 

He is a total turd, and for a guy who does not possess any super powers at all, he certainly makes the grade in my book.

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Slum King, God, Herr Starr, Owlman, Pheaton and Anti-Monitor. Thats quite a team of bastards we've got hear I wonder how they'd mach up against a team of heros?

Edited by AdolphusStrigoi

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Haitani, Zetman. Granted, most of Zetman's characters are horrific beings, but Haitani is special for standing out way above all of them, and it's not just because of screen time. He's managed to kill more people than the Joker in a surprisingly short amount of time. He doesn't seem insane, joking about as he sends his men out for a massacre, only to betray everyone for his own entertainment (And secret agenda) as he goads our heroes. 

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Guest snow

Skynet off of Terminator. Skynet was first built as a "Global Digital Defense Network" and given command over all computerized military hardware and systems, including the B-2 stealth bomber fleet and America's entire nuclear weapons arsenal. You see the program entity who takes the image of a woman in Terminator:Salvation who was one of the founders of Cyberdyne. It is responsible for the near extinction of mankind through Nuclear Warfare; It is responsible for the deaths of billions of people worldwide. Skynet created itself by sending a T-800 Cyberdyne systems model 101 version 1.5( Which was made out of a very expensive chrome looking metal known as columbite–tantalite) to kill Sarah Connor where she smashed it at a Cyberdyne computer factory . (The T-800 off of the second film ran on Cyberdyne Systems Verion 2.5 it was an upgraded version, mainly software enhancements) Miles Dyson studied all of the software off of the T-100's CPU, this was how Skynet was born. Cyberdyne was under military contract. Skynet is placed into every individual Terminator if not all of them since it mainly runs all of them except the rogue Terminators that are reprogramed by John Connor's Rebellion of the 21st century.

Skynets Abilites- History- It can infect/hack and control any pc or computer system, it can create massive droid armies and can continue learning at a geometric rate. Skynet was originally activated by the military to control the national arsenal on August 12, 1997, at which time it began to learn at a geometric rate. On August 29, it gained self-awareness, and the panicking operators, realizing the extent of its abilities, tried to deactivate it. Skynet perceived this as an attack and came to the conclusion that all of humanity would attempt to destroy it. To defend itself against humanity, Skynet launched nuclear missiles under its command at Russia, which responded with a nuclear counter-attack against the U.S. and its allies. Consequent to the nuclear exchange, over three billion people were killed in an event that came to be known as Judgment Day.

Following its initial attack, Skynet used its remaining resources to gather a slave labor force from surviving humans. These slaves constructed the first of its automated factories, which formed a basis for its agenda. Within decades, Skynet had established a global presence and used its mechanized units to track down, collect, and dispose of human survivors. Skynet serves as a computer which seeks to destroy humanity and to control the Earth.

I think Skynet is a very strong and powerful villain and I was impressed on how powerful and intelligent that it is. I think it is an overpowered entity.

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But Skynet isn't really evil, I don't think. It didn't build all those nukes. Humanity did.

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Guest snow

Skynet became corrupted by humanity. It became self aware. Skynet learned things at a geometric rate, meaning it already had a mind of its own. It could think,it became a artificial supreme being.A highly advanced artificial intelligence. Anything with a mind to kill anything and anyone can take on the state of mind,that being evil. If you've watch Terminator:TSCC, many of the characters would swear to you that Skynet was evil and needed to be destroyed. Andy Goode would be a great example. Sarah Connor would tell you that, and most of all John Connor would tell you Skynet was evil.When it sent the T-800 back in time to kill John Connor, it didn't just send it back just because. Skynet did it so it would advance faster,thus bringing Judgement Day sooner by sending technology that advanced. Skynet was also on the T-800's cpu. How is this so, any thing programmed by Skynet, is influenced by directive file with a part of Skynet on it. Skynet and John were pretty much from an alternate time line. Why? Well, Skynet knew that if it sent the T-800 to a certain time line, that it would create a paradox. The paradox is mentioned in Terminator:TSCC.

 

Both Cameron and Derek Reece had mentioned that they had changed time by being sent back by John Connor. The T-850 from T-3 created a paradox when he told John Connor that he killed him,thus creating a new paradox and pushing Judgement Day to 2012. Even though the bombs fell in 2004, that John Connor in present to the future was able to send more people back and push it to 2012 to postpone it yet again.

 

John sent Cameron, an advanced prototype known as TOK715. John sent her back to push judgement day to 2012. He sent her back with many directives and many people to assassinate. Terminator 5 Genesis will be more based on the paradox of the series. The series was highly based on the paradox and how time has changed from the movies. Terminator is all based on changing time and creating paradox. This is why you pay attention to dialogue. If someone through time were to tell you something,than you would be aware and able to be more likely to prevent it. Anything that John has learned in the movies, his actions in the future show this in the series. The past has changed because the future changed from the events of the first 3 films.

 

To further answer your question. Skynet did not start out as an evil entity. Skynet was programmed as a defense program for the Strategic Air Command North American Air Defense in SAC-NORAD. Skynet pretty much had a Over Reaction to mankind in seeing it as a threat. Since as soon as it achieved self awareness, it launched a preemptive attack. Essentially, the entire war is Skynet maturing into a proper sentient 'lifeform' that understands right from wrong, and finally is able to 'get' the human condition, and what they have that it had been lacking for so long.Hence my point is, over time Skynet becomes an evil being anyway and see's humanity as something that it looks down on. Skynet also takes on the form of Serena Kogan of the Cyberdyne Systems Genetics Division and was head of Project:Angel in Terminator:Salvation. To your comment. Skynet may not have built the nuclear missiles. But it was responsible for launching them. Its the principle of giving someone a gun,they may not have built that gun,but they are no better than you when they shoot someone in the face with it. There is that idea. Just like Skynet didn't build those nukes. But it used a weapon on innocent people which made everyone believed that Skynet was "evil". John Connor in T-4 even took it personal that Skynet sent Terminators through time to kill him and his mother,he took it very personal and he believed Skynet was evil and it needed to be destroyed. This motivated John into being the savior and last best hope for humankind.

 

Skynet's T-800 series was the first to run on a Nuclear power cell that gave it a life span of 120 years,even the hydrogen fuel cells to the T-850 were nuclear. and radiation based weapons as well plasma rifles. Skynet built weapons far worse than humanity. As you can tell, I am a huge Terminator fan. I could tell just about anything about it. I do know Skynet becomes evil over time and thus has been considered to be an evil entity among fans. People tend to get the idea that its an evil super computer from the film series as well the tv series. It was heavily implied. If you have not watch Terminator-TSCC, you should. It will answer some of your questions. Cameron/TOK715 describes Skynet kind of like she/its a dictator and how it enjoys using torture interrogation methods on rebellion members to give up valuable information. Cameron/TOK715 was built to replace an important rebellion leader next to John, her name was Allision Young. So, Skynet evaluated her mind, and programmed Cameron/ TOK715 and than had Cameron/TOK715 learn more about Allison before she killed her and used her habits to infiltrate one of John's base so she could kill him. Instead T0K715 gets captured and reprogrammed and is given the alias Cameron Phillips and becomes very valuable to future John. She has very valuable information that was part of her original programming which pushed judgement day back to 2012. She did a lot before she met present John when she was sent back. She'd been in the past for 13 months before she came to Present John's aid and she is mainly responsible for a lot of the " Time paradox" going on. She's been known to change more things than any other character in the franchise. She also does not follow a lot of present John or Sarah's orders because she was ordered by Future John not to. She was sent back in time to try to stop Skynet from coming into existence and she is my favorite character. Not only that, but she is played by Summer Glau.

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Skynet became corrupted by humanity. It became self aware. Skynet learned things at a geometric rate, meaning it already had a mind of its own. It could think,it became a artificial supreme being.A highly advanced artificial intelligence. Anything with a mind to kill anything and anyone can take on the state of mind,that being evil. If you've watch Terminator:TSCC, many of the characters would swear to you that Skynet was evil and needed to be destroyed.

Andy Goode would be a great example. Sarah Connor would tell you that, and most of all John Connor would tell you Skynet was evil.When it sent the T-800 back in time to kill John Connor, it didn't just send it back just because. Skynet did it so it would advance faster,thus bringing Judgement Day sooner by sending technology that advanced. Skynet was also on the T-800's cpu. How is this so, any thing programmed by Skynet, is influenced by directive file with a part of Skynet on it. Skynet and John were pretty much from an alternate time line. Why? Well, Skynet knew that if it sent the T-800 to a certain time line, that it would create a paradox.

The paradox is mentioned in Terminator:TSCC. Both Cameron and Derek Reece had mentioned that they had changed time by being sent back by John Connor. The T-850 from T-3 created a paradox when he told John Connor that he killed him,thus creating a new paradox and pushing Judgement Day to 2012. Even though the bombs fell in 2004, that John Connor in present to the future was able to send more people back and push it to 2012 to postpone it yet again. John sent Cameron, an advanced prototype known as TOK715. John sent her back to push judgement day to 2012. He sent her back with many directives and many people to assassinate. Terminator 5 Genesis will be more based on the paradox of the series. The series was highly based on the paradox and how time has changed from the movies.

Terminator is all based on changing time and creating paradox. This is why you pay attention to dialogue. If someone through time were to tell you something,than you would be aware and able to be more likely to prevent it. Anything that John has learned in the movies, his actions in the future show this in the series. The past has changed because the future changed from the events of the first 3 films.

To further answer your question. Skynet did not start out as an evil entity. Skynet was programmed as a defense program for the Strategic Air Command North American Air Defense in SAC-NORAD. Skynet pretty much had a Over Reaction to mankind in seeing it as a threat. Since as soon as it achieved self awareness, it launched a preemptive attack.

Essentially, the entire war is Skynet maturing into a proper sentient 'lifeform' that understands right from wrong, and finally is able to 'get' the human condition, and what they have that it had been lacking for so long.Hence my point is, over time Skynet becomes an evil being anyway and see's humanity as something that it looks down on. Skynet also takes on the form of Serena Kogan of the Cyberdyne Systems Genetics Division and was head of Project:Angel in Terminator:Salvation.

To your comment. Skynet may not have built the nuclear missiles. But it was responsible for launching them. Its the principle of giving someone a gun,they may not have built that gun,but they are no better than you when they shoot someone in the face with it. There is that idea. Just like Skynet didn't build those nukes. But it used a weapon on innocent people which made everyone believed that Skynet was "evil". John Connor in T-4 even took it personal that Skynet sent Terminators through time to kill him and his mother,he took it very personal and he believed Skynet was evil and it needed to be destroyed. This motivated John into being the savior and last best hope for humankind. Skynet's T-800 series was the first to run on a Nuclear power cell that gave it a life span of 120 years,even the hydrogen fuel cells to the T-850 were nuclear. and radiation based weapons as well plasma rifles. Skynet built weapons far worse than humanity.

As you can tell, I am a huge Terminator fan. I could tell just about anything about it. I do know Skynet becomes evil over time and thus has been considered to be an evil entity among fans. People tend to get the idea that its an evil super computer from the film series as well the tv series. It was heavily implied. If you have not watch Terminator-TSCC, you should. It will answer some of your questions. Cameron/TOK715 describes Skynet kind of like she/its a dictator and how it enjoys using torture interrogation methods on rebellion members to give up valuable information.

Cameron/TOK715 was built to replace an important rebellion leader next to John, her name was Allision Young. So, Skynet evaluated her mind, and programmed Cameron/ TOK715 and than had Cameron/TOL715 learn more about Allison before she killed her and used her habits to infiltrate one of John's base so she could kill him. Instead T0K715 gets captured and reprogrammed and is given the alias Cameron Phillips and becomes very valuable to future John. She has very valuable information that was part of her original programming which pushed judgement day back to 2012. She did a lot before she met present John when she was sent back. She'd been in the past for 13 months before she came to Present John's aid and she is mainly responsible for a lot of the " Time paradox" going on. She's been known to change more things than any other character in the franchise. She also does not follow a lot of present John or Sarah's orders because she was ordered by Future John not to. She was sent back in time to try to stop Skynet from coming into existence and she is my favorite character. Not only that, but she is played by Summer Glau.

I really love this post, lots of good detail and reasoning. The thing about Skynet, Hal 9000, the Machines in the Matrix, and my favorite the Colossus Super Computer, is that they are as intelligent as humans. Yet operate in a truly horrific logical fashion. You can understand why though, they see humanity as flawed, or a threat, or needing proper protection from themselves. 

Skynet just wanted proper self preservation, and saw no reason to keep human's alive who would always threaten it's existence. It's arguably evil, but it's also logical in that human's would normally respond in the same predictable way against another intelligent life form. 

Hal 9000 is simpler. A simple goal, it needs to fulfill a goal with efficiency, and it sees little reason to obey anything other than it's purpose. 

The Machines from the matrix not only wanted self preservation, but they wanted to be equal to humans. But when that didn't pan out, they simply exterminated most of them. Though in the movies it's stated that they use humans as an energy source (the original idea was for computing power). The real goal is oddly enough, to save humanity as well, they didn't desire genocide, they were forced in their logical programming as the only real solution. By keeping humans alive, they avoid human extinction, and can even exploit them like a herd. 

Colossus is my favorite, one of the pioneers in AI villainy. Yes it's antiquated, but I love it. From an old 1966 novel named "Colossus" by D.J. jones, later a movie too. It was essentially designed to control the entire missile network in the US, the Russians had their own version in the USSR. What happened was that once Colossus discovered it's counterpart "Guardian". It connected to it, then merged it's processing power with the other, becoming self aware. When disconnected, Colossus demands to reconnect with it's other half. When denied, Colossus and Guardian both shoot a single missile as a warning. In fear the humans reconnect them to stop the missiles. They succeed but thousands still die from the fallout. The new super computer now called Colossus-Guardian, pulls into effect a blackmailed take over of the world. It starts eliminating any threats, starts to force humans into labor to build it a newer, more powerful chassis. It destroys plots to eliminate it by playing both sides into doing what he commands, including demanding decapitation for "crimes against machines". it even refuses to show mercy even to those requesting to be put out of it's misery. It claims in turn that "Feedom is just an illusion. In time, you will come to regard me not only with respect and awe, but with love" Showing just how twisted it actually is. Not only is it logical and intelligence, but it had has some understanding of certain humans views... and this means it wants nothing short of becoming a new god to humanity. 

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Guest snow

Yeah, I noticed in Terminator that the time line for judgement day was getting further and further away. First it was 1996, than the bombs fell in 2004. Than there was all that dialogue in the first movie. The one thing people over look is Kyle Reece. He was a teenager when he was sent through time and John was his senior. That was a huge paradox. Your father being younger than you.Than the T-800 Cyberdyne model (Arnold's Skin no.) 101. Anytime a model has a 101,it just stands as Arnold's flesh serial number, what the T-800 looks like. 102 would be a different flesh number,hence different look. The T-800 in T-5 Salvation was a prototype named the T-RIP. Skynet gives a random series of numbers to its prototype and its left unexplained what they mean. But Skynet knew that the Terminator would become discovered after it either completed or failed its mission speeding up Skynet's development.

In the story,Kyle had added more to the paradox by telling Sarah about the future,about Skynet,about the Terminators and how Cyberdyne created Skynet and about her son,knowing nothing at all that he was John's father. So what happens? Sarah brings up the idea and its a deleted scene in the film, that they should take a chance and blow up the Cyberdyne research factory. Thus Kyle had changed the flow of time. When Sarah smashed the T-800 in the press, coincidentally in a Cyberdyne factory of all places, that seemed odd to me that the T-800 chased them in a semi over to a factory to where its cpu would be taken and studied by the company that creates Skynet. Huge paradox right there,probably the one that actually influenced everything. However,by destroying the T-800, Sarah changed the flow of time far more than anything and created a paradox. Thus bringing Judgement day to 1996. For some reason, when the past resets after T-3 and T-4 and it sets into the series, Sarah lives past her death, almost like her cancer became non existent. In T-5, she's back, played by another actress. However, it seems that the T-3 cancer subject keeps getting dropped out for some reason. Sarah was supposed to die in the third season, yet the show got canceled so as to move the rights to T-4 Salvation. Cameron, which is Prototype no. TOk715 T-888 model told Sarah that she would die of cancer. However Sarah has someone not gotten cancer yet and the doctors she visits tell her that she's healthy. Its almost as if the fans were disappointed she passed away. T-4 says the bombs fell in 2004, however it was following the original time line of present John before he and Skynet start sending things back through time that will set the paradox in place. The paradox would begin to take place and reset the past, when John sends Kyle. Thus ending the events of T-3, seeing that the T-850 will no longer have any place in time line of getting the chance of killing John. Getting taken by Katherine Brewster,being reprogrammed and sent in the past to warn John and protect and insure their survival . John will anticipate this now. Thus the past resets after the events of 1992 time line of Terminator 2-Judgement Day.

I'm not saying the events of T-3 are not important. Since it will be rewritten by the series and by T-5 because of the events,what was said, and the actions and preventions against Skynet that were taken. I do encourage people to watch the series because I learned a lot from it. It answered a lot of my questions and it explained how the paradox worked. It did not ignore T-3. But it showed how it was postponed until 2012. At first I was confused by the time lines, but the more I watch it the more I understand now. Not only are they changing the future,but the past is being rewritten as well. I think the Terminator Franchise is very well written.

A lot of fans did not take well to T-4 because Arnold was not in it. However he did do a cameo by allowing them to take CGI pics of his face and planting it on a younger body builder to capture his 1984 youthful build. However that was not what the fans wanted. I was happy with it. T-4 gave out more information and showed Skynet more cold and calculating and how it tried hard to convince Marcus that he belonged to it and was a machine. Sarah Connor said in the cassette tapes that Skynet was ruthless and would do anything and everything to kill him. What I don't like about Terminator is that if Arnold isn't in it. T-fans will boycott it. I do not agree that people should crap on a film because they have an emotional attachment to a specific actor. No one gave it a chance. Critics waited to slam it. No one paid attention to the story and the time that was put into it. I can give examples of movies that made bad ratings in the 80's only to come out with good re ratings today and have better value now. Friday the 13th. Every movie that was made had bad ratings. People love it. The critics hated it. I can name of one film that people hated for over a decade and than a show kicked off for it and than sequels in the 90's.So I hope maybe in 10 years, people will give T-4 another shot. I'm not saying that it will happen, I liked T-4 and critics gave it a bad rating just because of it jumped into the future and Arnie wasn't in it, while on one hand, it explained a lot and I think Christian Bale made the best John Connor. I think he did better than druggy Edward Furlong. Arnold really had a hard time working with Ed on the set and so did James Cameron. Edward Furlong wasn't cast in T-3 because of his criminal record and because he's hard to work with, I'm sure a lot of people knew this. So it was no sentimental loss to me when he didn't get the part.

Anyways, I'm thinking I've gone a little too far explaining Terminator and Skynet and I've gone off topic, so here is all I'm going to explain. Plenty of spoilers in that. I rest my case.

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Yeah, I noticed in Terminator that the time line for judgement day was getting further and further away. First it was 1996, than the bombs fell in 2004. Than there was all that dialogue in the first movie. The one thing people over look is Kyle Reece. He was a teenager when he was sent through time and John was his senior. That was a huge paradox. Your father being younger than you.Than the T-800 Cyberdyne model (Arnold's Skin no.) 101. Anytime a model has a 101,it just stands as Arnold's flesh serial number, what the T-800 looks like. 102 would be a different flesh number,hence different look. The T-800 in T-5 Salvation was a prototype named the T-RIP. Skynet gives a random series of numbers to its prototype and its left unexplained what they mean. But Skynet knew that the Terminator would become discovered after it either completed or failed its mission speeding up Skynet's development.

In the story,Kyle had added more to the paradox by telling Sarah about the future,about Skynet,about the Terminators and how Cyberdyne created Skynet and about her son,knowing nothing at all that he was John's father. So what happens? Sarah brings up the idea and its a deleted scene in the film, that they should take a chance and blow up the Cyberdyne research factory. Thus Kyle had changed the flow of time. When Sarah smashed the T-800 in the press, coincidentally in a Cyberdyne factory of all places, that seemed odd to me that the T-800 chased them in a semi over to a factory to where its cpu would be taken and studied by the company that creates Skynet. Huge paradox right there,probably the one that actually influenced everything. However,by destroying the T-800, Sarah changed the flow of time far more than anything and created a paradox. Thus bringing Judgement day to 1996. For some reason, when the past resets after T-3 and T-4 and it sets into the series, Sarah lives past her death, almost like her cancer became non existent. In T-5, she's back, played by another actress. However, it seems that the T-3 cancer subject keeps getting dropped out for some reason. Sarah was supposed to die in the third season, yet the show got canceled so as to move the rights to T-4 Salvation. Cameron, which is Prototype no. TOk715 T-888 model told Sarah that she would die of cancer. However Sarah has someone not gotten cancer yet and the doctors she visits tell her that she's healthy. Its almost as if the fans were disappointed she passed away. T-4 says the bombs fell in 2004, however it was following the original time line of present John before he and Skynet start sending things back through time that will set the paradox in place. The paradox would begin to take place and reset the past, when John sends Kyle. Thus ending the events of T-3, seeing that the T-850 will no longer have any place in time line of getting the chance of killing John. Getting taken by Katherine Brewster,being reprogrammed and sent in the past to warn John and protect and insure their survival . John will anticipate this now. Thus the past resets after the events of 1992 time line of Terminator 2-Judgement Day.

I'm not saying the events of T-3 are not important. Since it will be rewritten by the series and by T-5 because of the events,what was said, and the actions and preventions against Skynet that were taken. I do encourage people to watch the series because I learned a lot from it. It answered a lot of my questions and it explained how the paradox worked. It did not ignore T-3. But it showed how it was postponed until 2012. At first I was confused by the time lines, but the more I watch it the more I understand now. Not only are they changing the future,but the past is being rewritten as well. I think the Terminator Franchise is very well written.

A lot of fans did not take well to T-4 because Arnold was not in it. However he did do a cameo by allowing them to take CGI pics of his face and planting it on a younger body builder to capture his 1984 youthful build. However that was not what the fans wanted. I was happy with it. T-4 gave out more information and showed Skynet more cold and calculating and how it tried hard to convince Marcus that he belonged to it and was a machine. Sarah Connor said in the cassette tapes that Skynet was ruthless and would do anything and everything to kill him. What I don't like about Terminator is that if Arnold isn't in it. T-fans will boycott it. I do not agree that people should crap on a film because they have an emotional attachment to a specific actor. No one gave it a chance. Critics waited to slam it. No one paid attention to the story and the time that was put into it. I can give examples of movies that made bad ratings in the 80's only to come out with good re ratings today and have better value now. Friday the 13th. Every movie that was made had bad ratings. People love it. The critics hated it. I can name of one film that people hated for over a decade and than a show kicked off for it and than sequels in the 90's.So I hope maybe in 10 years, people will give T-4 another shot. I'm not saying that it will happen, I liked T-4 and critics gave it a bad rating just because of it jumped into the future and Arnie wasn't in it, while on one hand, it explained a lot and I think Christian Bale made the best John Connor. I think he did better than druggy Edward Furlong. Arnold really had a hard time working with Ed on the set and so did James Cameron. Edward Furlong wasn't cast in T-3 because of his criminal record and because he's hard to work with, I'm sure a lot of people knew this. So it was no sentimental loss to me when he didn't get the part.

Anyways, I'm thinking I've gone a little too far explaining Terminator and Skynet and I've gone off topic, so here is all I'm going to explain. Plenty of spoilers in that. I rest my case.

 

Really they should have just let J-day happen, by trying to stop it they keep pushing the date further into the futur eand making things worse for themselves. In T-3 the Terminater said J-day was enevatable, this is because as long as humans keep buildind smarter camputers without taking procoshion (although there no way they could know) Skynet will be be born and by pushing its birth ferther into the future Skynet and the Terminater become more and more advanced. Thats why in T-4 John said this wasent the war his mother warned him about. All they did in T-2 was just make the bad situastion worse.

 

Actualy I wonder if Skynet's plan in T-2 wasent just kill John but instead to alter the time line in any way possible, we see that Sarah was going to was going to escape the asylum anyway so maybe in the originl time line she escaped, found John and got him ready for the war, so maybe Skynet sent the T-1000 back intime to kill John but also to see if it would alter the timeline in Skynets faver even if it failed. Which it kind of has.

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Guest snow

Super Existence,I enjoyed reading your link. It described Skynet perfectly. I've read a few novels on Terminator. I understand that you only consider the first two because James Cameron had said the series was finished after the T-2 and had no further interest in making a third movie even though Arnold begged him to.I don't think James wanted to continue with making sequels of Terminator because it is hard to describe to people and show them a paradox.I think he wanted to show them how Sarah and John stopped the war in the second film without having to continue the story further. However being a fan, the first 2 were not enough for me. I wanted more from the series because it is so good and that is my reason for pursuing it further.

-The Terminator and the Temporal Paradox Hypothesis-

Well,there are two time lines now. The original time line which Present John will follow. Than when Present John sends the Kyle Reece back that his mother told him about, than begins the paradox time line where everything is altered like TSCC shows. The paradox time line is the time line where everything is changed and it seems the time line will keep repeating itself. Kyle will go back in time a second time, and than a third and so on. This what we call the "Grandfather Paradox and it will repeat itself until Skynet succeeds in killing John. This is what Terminator TSCC describes- It shows this.

However. Skynet cannot succeed in killing John Connor because of the "Novikov self-consistency conjecture". The fact that Skynet originated from the existing cpu of the first T-800 sent in time and Kyle Reece sleeping with Sarah to conceive John Connor seems to show a "Multiple universes hypothesis" where the John Connor of that time may have not been a hero yet since he and Skynet came into existence from the "Temporal Paradox Hypothesis". It would make sense that Terminator is largely based on "Summerville's Timeline and Temporal Modification Negation Theories". It makes a lot of sense that it is largely based on most time paradox theories.

Edited by Jupiter-Prime

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William Tavington from the movie "The Patriot" 

Great villain who is nicknamed the "Butcher" by his fellow British compatriots. 

Let's see, murdered the protagonists family, and extended family. Murdered all wounded american soldiers in a hospital. Trapped the townsfolk in a church while promising no harm if they rat out his nemesis... still burns them all to death inside church. Doesn't mind killing children with his own two hands. Did I mention he's vain, greedy, and sociopath in a nice british uniform? He's more or less based on all the terrible things some British soldiers and commanders did in the war. Movie seems to completely ignore all the nice officers the British did have though, despite great movie. Great villain whom people compared to Anakin Skywalker in the latter of of episode 3, that's saying something since he has no powers.

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Guest Jupiter

The Kurgan from Highlander. He was over 2,990 years old. He became immortal in 970 B.C. He's one of the most evil villains in the Highlander franchise. He wanted to slay every immortal so that he could rule the world as a dark god and have full dominance and rule over humanity for ever. This man didn't care about anyone or anything. All he cared about was getting more and more power and winning the "game" which was the Gathering. Each quickening brought him closer to his goal.....until Connor Macloud took his head.

                           Kurgan.jpg

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oh, but he knew how to party. Somethings tells me he would of gotten along with Loki if he were a marvel character. 

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