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Tales

What's wrong with today's Rider?

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tales, remember your spoiler tag please.

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Huh? That was based on what I know.

You meant it's true that Toho redesigned Godzilla for the sake of beating the American one?

Edited by Tales

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no, i was referring to a previous post.

I just hope nobody noticed.

i put the tag on there for you.

even though this topic is expected to have some spoilers... major spoilors should still be covered.

for example, I have seen many heisei rider series, but i have not seen blade and i intend to watch it.

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I don't thik i have read anything about blade that is a big spoiler. usually when i see something about blade i am very careful and sometimes skip it.

the things you need to be careful about,

and should NEVER be left without a spoiler tag because they will RUIN the series for someone who hasn't seen it :-

555 -

takumi is an orphenoc

kabuto -

hiyori is a native (although this one is not so bad)

ryuki -

shinji dies at the end

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I think this topic should have a change in name

What's wrong with today's Riders?

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Hi Toku Warrior, Sorry we are busy until maybe tmr night....

Ok Basically when I asked what do we like about Kamen Rider? I think it's wasn't the right Question. But rather the question should be...

What is Kamen Rider? In other words, what make Kamen Rider unique in the first place. It's more than a mask and a bike and a grasshopper motif. Themes and perhaps ... I dunno how to say this really? The X-Factor?

What is the most important aspect that puts the Rider in Kamen Rider?

Anyone?

Edited by Tales

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright this guy, Dr. Cain, a member at Japan Hero Access- a forum who of intellects, mentioned something very true.

The Kamen Rider franchise, to me, has been mostly about justice, and in most cases, vindication. That seems to be the theme.

Originally, I had heard that the reason for the bug theme was to indicate after a nuclear holocaust, the bugs would be the only survivor. (This is mostly due to Japan's strong anti-nuclear prolifiration stance) Thus, mankind would become a bug in order to survive.

In most Riders of the Showa era, something was taken from the Rider. Be it his humanity, his father mother and sister, or even his arm. In the persuit of justice, a Kamen Rider's duty is to transform and protect the world from injustice...keeping in mind that he is still a bug.

These are just somewhat theories, so don't attack me for them being stated as fact. ^ ^

I'm all for having the plot get deeper. How the public responds to a hero, how family members treat the "Kamen Rider", how much leverage the villian can take in order to best his rival, but most Kamen Riders now (okay, all) don't shed the slightest bit of light onto those very real sitations. Even Sentai.

******(Caution, some spoilers-- Ryuuki, Megaranger)******

I remember that one ep of Ryuuki where the little kid gets a hold of the Dragon deck, and wants to become a Rider, yet Shinji and Gorou have to show him...being a Rider is not fun. IT's not cool. IT's painful, you sacrifice, and it's very real. Even the end of Megaranger, when the villain exposes them as a bunch of high schoolers, the school expels them for their bringing everyone under attack. Where are any of these nowdays?

******END SPOILERS******

The bug theme is gone. The kick, bikes, belt, eyes, pose and Henshin remain (erm, 'cept Hibiki), but it sems to not be about justice anymore. Not family. Not neccesarily vindication, either. Perhaps Decade is scraping that theme with the underly dramatic scenes recently between Tsukasa and Natsumi, but no one can deny it is a completelty different breed from the TRUE Kamen Rider of yesteryear.

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I've been watching V3 recently, and there are a lot of things that I notice that seems to be different. Like mentioned above, riders are on the side of Justice. This fact is strongly portrayed in the older series, while on newer riders, this notion seems to have taken a back seat. Also the urgency of the matter is somewhat relaxed on the current riders. The main point is that although modern riders lacked some of the finer points of the older riders, they have improved upon other aspects of the show. Like the action scenes and direction are much better. Long time Rider Director Nagaishi Takao is still active, being assistant director from Showa series to being the current main director. Also, although the "monster of the week" format is still being followed, each episode does not get repetitive, and still offer some advancement in plot. However, I have not seen this in Decade.

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I've been watching V3 recently, and there are a lot of things that I notice that seems to be different. Like mentioned above, riders are on the side of Justice. This fact is strongly portrayed in the older series, while on newer riders, this notion seems to have taken a back seat. Also the urgency of the matter is somewhat relaxed on the current riders. The main point is that although modern riders lacked some of the finer points of the older riders, they have improved upon other aspects of the show. Like the action scenes and direction are much better. Long time Rider Director Nagaishi Takao is still active, being assistant director from Showa series to being the current main director. Also, although the "monster of the week" format is still being followed, each episode does not get repetitive, and still offer some advancement in plot. However, I have not seen this in Decade.

But if those finer points are the aspects that makes Kamen Rider Kamen Rider? Is it worth losing it? To me I think it's like making Transformers that do not have the ability to transform or even making Transformers with sexual humor?

Since the beginning of franchises, each fantasy had to change to fit the tastes of the audiences. Maybe the audiences of Kamen Rider were the ones that caused the change in Den-O?

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But if those finer points are the aspects that makes Kamen Rider Kamen Rider? Is it worth losing it? To me I think it's like making Transformers that do not have the ability to transform or even making Transformers with sexual humor?

Since the beginning of franchises, each fantasy had to change to fit the tastes of the audiences. Maybe the audiences of Kamen Rider were the ones that caused the change in Den-O?

Yes, I think this may be true. I think I read from somewhere that the success in Kabuto's humor drove the producers to make a full scale comedy of Den-O. I think I will have to get back on you regarding Den-O once I've seen it. You could say that the latest modern rider that I have seen and liked is Kabuto. At the moment, I'm still chuckling from watching V3 on youtube. They keep calling Kazami "wolf" and Hongo "Woody". :lol:

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So now the question is... is it humor or the fight for justice and freedom that is the defining aspect of Kamen Rider.

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I'm wondering if you think...

is the original series constantly called kamen rider? or is it masked rider?

some recent series are called masked rider. is there a difference? do you think that masked rider could be different from kamen rider in style.

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It's Kamen Rider as long as it's made by Japanese. They called it Kamen Rider. Masked Rider is just an english translation on their title plate. Perhaps to market to overseas. But ever since Saban's abomination of Masked Rider, Masked Rider has become like a "taboo" word.

examples from their promos

Edited by Tales

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yeah, that's what i'm getting at.

they put it on the title card. so the japanese want it to be masked rider. I don't care about saban.

but the point is, the japanese called these ones masked rider. did they call the other ones kamen rider?

is there some correlation between the names and the shows and if they fit your idea of kamen rider.

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Yes... I just came back from Kamen Rider Black. It's still called Kamen Rider. The name is not the matter, it's what it symbolises.

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well the name could symbolise a change in attitude of the creators.

do you know what i'm getting at?

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Yes perhaps to market to overseas? but that doesn't mean that the attitude could have changed so drastically.

Edited by Tales

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but i'm not talking about marketig overseas...........

[emote=onion]pool[/emote]

I'm talking about their attitude towards teh show, and does it coincide with the naming.

perhaps they changed the naming to demonstrate that this is not the same as 'kamen rider'

to say that they are doing it differently..

anyway.. I answered my question myself.

all the series after kuuga are "masked rider" until W comes along.

I don't know if kuuga is masked rider because it doesn't specify in the title card.

if somebody has seen kuuga they can perhaps enlighten me as to if there are any pointers in the show that suggest that it is meant to be masked rider or if it is certainly kamen rider.

since all the shows past kuuga are named "masked rider" I believe that the creators are not trying to make proper kamen rider, they are doing something different yet similar in some ways. yet they know that it is not totally following the formula of kamen rider so they call it "masked rider" on the title card.

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but i'm not talking about marketig overseas...........

[emote=onion]pool[/emote]

I'm talking about their attitude towards the show, and does it coincide with the naming.

perhaps they changed the naming to demonstrate that this is not the same as 'kamen rider'

to say that they are doing it differently..

anyway.. I answered my question myself.

all the series after kuuga are "masked rider" until W comes along.

I don't know if kuuga is masked rider because it doesn't specify in the title card.

if somebody has seen kuuga they can perhaps enlighten me as to if there are any pointers in the show that suggest that it is meant to be masked rider or if it is certainly kamen rider.

since all the shows past kuuga are named "masked rider" I believe that the creators are not trying to make proper kamen rider, they are doing something different yet similar in some ways. yet they know that it is not totally following the formula of kamen rider so they call it "masked rider" on the title card.

Hmmm but W also had the Masked Rider on the title....

I haven't thought about this issue. But either way, a change in attitude to the Show could spell disaster.

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Guest CompleteDeka

actually, W has kamen rider on the title card

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I noticed... so I think the title has no relation with the attitude of Toei towards the Rider franchise.

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Guest CompleteDeka

or maybe, as my brother is trying to point out, by using kamen instead of masked, they are indicating that they are going back to the old skool way of doing things. the feel of the latest trailer, and the return of the scarf also point to this.

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Gone are the sweat pants clad riders with their nylon scarf. Enter the leather clad riders with their fancy gimmicks.

I'll say that one thing that improved greatly is the way they make the costumes. But then again, complete decade is ugly for me. I'm still trying to get the hang of W's costume. Somehow, my first impression on it is kinda bland.

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