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Maze247365

Who else is as strong as a Guyver?

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On 11/1/2018 at 12:54 PM, Tora Tan said:

guyver always seemed more grounded in reality though didn't it?  I realise it won't be perfect, but i think it has more consistency than most marvel comics.

Salkafar, I was really just hoping to suggest possibilities because I think it is easy to assume things but what if it is possible to have them weight so much when they are in human form. maybe metal in the bones can be stretched and changed easily? would it really be any different from calcium?  the aliens made some pretty crazy technology, like stuff that creates a guyver with their metallic crystal structures from seemingly organic materials. I think it could be reasonable that the way zoanoids are made is rather exotic too. 

a common mistake, the truth is that they are much stronger, leaving it clear, a gregol is a 15, and is capable of lifting about 50 tons, multiplying that by what would be a 100 leaving bace

a human bace according to the measurements of this universe after the conversion in zoanoid or guyver.

1 human = 3 tons
15 humans = 50 tons
100 humans = 300 tons,

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Abject nonsense.

It's an art error. That simple.

Gregole can't lift fifty tons.  Think: if Gregole is that strong, yet a Guyver can make mincemeat of one: how strong is a Guyver? There has never been any indication anywhere else that Zoanoids and Guyvers are that strong.

There has never been any indication ever at all that human beings are superhumanly strong in the Guyver universe, either. Perhaps a processed human has some enhanced strength, but three tons? Ridiculous.

Gregole has the equivalent strength of fifteen average, non-processed human beings with normal human strength, giving him the ability to lift one and a half to maybe two tons, ie, about ten to fourteen times his own body weight.

Edited by Salkafar

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I think it is safe to say that a gregole cannot lift a 50 ton tank.  That is why I was attempting to point out that the drawing that we have assumed is a gregole is not a gregole but more likely a tabross or just another zoanoid that looks similar. it is such a small drawing and very little detail and what details are there can be applied to a tabross, if we forgive a lack of tail? and we saw a tabross lifting a tank on xday the first time round anyway. The image that alkanfel linked for us after that, is not an official datafile for gregole, it's been pieced together by a fan.  the datafiles for gregole never show it lifting a tank. there are no official images showing gregole lifting a tank. just a small figure of a zoanoid that looks a lot like gregole but is probably a badly drawn tabross.

It may seem like we are wildly off topic but I think it is all relevant. I think it goes to show that we can expect some level of consistency from guyver. things that seem outlandish can surely be explained? like for example, cablarl in brain mode, can easily be constructed of a sponge like structure. it's highly likely that the structure and configuration is most important to amplify his powers. inside could be a lattice, like a radio tower or something.  I'd like to think that there is this sort of consistency and that it allows us to be able to make real world comparisons with them. well at least I'd rather think that way than just say it's all nonsense.

 

Edit:
I just wondered if it was a different tank from an abrams, because everyone seemed to just accept that it was an abrams, one of the heaviest tanks.  It seems light tanks can weight from as little as 6 tons. I did a google search for light tank and there are a lot of tanks that look like the one in the drawing.  So this could actually feasibly be a gregole lifting a light tank, or a gregole variant?
also, we can't see the back of the tank. there could be another zoanoid there or the tank could be resting on a small hill.

If a gregole can lift up to 7.5 tons normally... then if the centre of gravity of that tank was just behind him, and the rear was resting on a hill, then the weight of the tank could be 1.1 - 1.5 times his maximum strength? I'm just guessing here. it's possible that if this is gregole, it could be lifting something maybe up to 11 tons?  looking at a small diagram guessing the possible size and position of the ground and the outline of the tank and where the centre of gravity could be, I think it's possible

tank.jpg

Edited by Tora Tan

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On 11/3/2018 at 1:49 PM, Salkafar said:

Abject nonsense.

It's an art error. That simple.

Gregole can't lift fifty tons.  Think: if Gregole is that strong, yet a Guyver can make mincemeat of one: how strong is a Guyver? There has never been any indication anywhere else that Zoanoids and Guyvers are that strong.

There has never been any indication ever at all that human beings are superhumanly strong in the Guyver universe, either. Perhaps a processed human has some enhanced strength, but three tons? Ridiculous.

Gregole has the equivalent strength of fifteen average, non-processed human beings with normal human strength, giving him the ability to lift one and a half to maybe two tons, ie, about ten to fourteen times his own body weight.

 

19 hours ago, Tora Tan said:

I think it is safe to say that a gregole cannot lift a 50 ton tank.  That is why I was attempting to point out that the drawing that we have assumed is a gregole is not a gregole but more likely a tabross or just another zoanoid that looks similar. it is such a small drawing and very little detail and what details are there can be applied to a tabross, if we forgive a lack of tail? and we saw a tabross lifting a tank on xday the first time round anyway. The image that alkanfel linked for us after that, is not an official datafile for gregole, it's been pieced together by a fan.  the datafiles for gregole never show it lifting a tank. there are no official images showing gregole lifting a tank. just a small figure of a zoanoid that looks a lot like gregole but is probably a badly drawn tabross.

It may seem like we are wildly off topic but I think it is all relevant. I think it goes to show that we can expect some level of consistency from guyver. things that seem outlandish can surely be explained? like for example, cablarl in brain mode, can easily be constructed of a sponge like structure. it's highly likely that the structure and configuration is most important to amplify his powers. inside could be a lattice, like a radio tower or something.  I'd like to think that there is this sort of consistency and that it allows us to be able to make real world comparisons with them. well at least I'd rather think that way than just say it's all nonsense.

 

Edit:
I just wondered if it was a different tank from an abrams, because everyone seemed to just accept that it was an abrams, one of the heaviest tanks.  It seems light tanks can weight from as little as 6 tons. I did a google search for light tank and there are a lot of tanks that look like the one in the drawing.  So this could actually feasibly be a gregole lifting a light tank, or a gregole variant?
also, we can't see the back of the tank. there could be another zoanoid there or the tank could be resting on a small hill.

If a gregole can lift up to 7.5 tons normally... then if the centre of gravity of that tank was just behind him, and the rear was resting on a hill, then the weight of the tank could be 1.1 - 1.5 times his maximum strength? I'm just guessing here. it's possible that if this is gregole, it could be lifting something maybe up to 11 tons?  looking at a small diagram guessing the possible size and position of the ground and the outline of the tank and where the centre of gravity could be, I think it's possible

tank.jpg

I would like to clarify a couple of points.

First, we have never seen a zoanoid or a guyver in human form, facing a regular human so we can not know whether or not they have a difference in physical force. but we do have examples of zoalords, hyper zoanoids, and lost numbers in human form. demonstrating to have a human-like ferrous

second, by the date of publication and by the place where they were, it is deduced what type of tank they are, in fact they could investigate what kind of tanks were used at the beginning of the decade of the 90s, in the Middle East, the United States.

P.S. In the manga it is clear that a zoanoid with only one arm was starting to lift one of these tanks before being crushed by them.

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22 hours ago, alkanfel009 said:

second, by the date of publication and by the place where they were, it is deduced what type of tank they are, in fact they could investigate what kind of tanks were used at the beginning of the decade of the 90s, in the Middle East, the United States.

In the manga panels in book 9 that show tabross lifting a tank, we know what part of the world that is happening.  In the panel above with the diagram, there is no information saying where in the world that is. it could be anywhere, even some barren land near a tank museum or a military testing facility.
if it were the middle east, we would expect to see tabross.  and I can't imagine a gregole trying to lift a tank if they are in a place where tabross are deployed. it wouldn't be good military tactics. so I don't think that image is showing an active war zone where tanks would normally be deployed.
also, in that one picture is a single vamore. in book 9 and in the visualdatafile, lots of vamore were lined up in formation.  that seems to be their military tactic in the middle east, but here there is only one of them so I don't think it is the same place we saw in book 9.

Edited by Tora Tan

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11 hours ago, Tora Tan said:

In the manga panels in book 9 that show tabross lifting a tank, we know what part of the world that is happening.  In the panel above with the diagram, there is no information saying where in the world that is. it could be anywhere, even some barren land near a tank museum or a military testing facility.
if it were the middle east, we would expect to see tabross.  and I can't imagine a gregole trying to lift a tank if they are in a place where tabross are deployed. it wouldn't be good military tactics. so I don't think that image is showing an active war zone where tanks would normally be deployed.
also, in that one picture is a single vamore. in book 9 and in the visualdatafile, lots of vamore were lined up in formation.  that seems to be their military tactic in the middle east, but here there is only one of them so I don't think it is the same place we saw in book 9.

p_00012.jpg?u=

 

I see here. a zoanoid with only one arm that is starting to lift a tank.

p_00013.jpg?u=

p_00014.jpg?u=

Edited by alkanfel009

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yes, that is tabross. I don't think anyone is debating that.

tabross are developed for desert operations, their tail can take down an elephant, they are made for extreme strength and very likely designed specifically to take on tanks.  we don't have data on their strength level, but I think it's safe to assume it is more than 30. probably not over 9000 though, so I don't think a tabross could beat goku.

 

Edit:

zerbebuth was 45 times as powerful as a human, and at our current stage in the manga, Kronos has managed to not only reproduce him, but improve on his design. I think at the time of x-day a zoanoid with reasonable adoption  numbers, stronger than that was probably likely. in his datafile tabross does look more stronger built than zerbebuth, more like darzerb.

Edited by Tora Tan

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on a side note regarding a guyver's strength level versus what we seen, 

datafile has a guyver at 100x

a gregole at 15x

zerebubuth was 45x

and a derzerb was 60x.

 

ok we seen sho struggle with a gregole only once in the first issue. then dismembered the poor green giant.

 

zerebubuth was another matter. he pretty much ignored any physical blow in the 12 ova episodes. it took a double rear mule kick to the back of zerebubuths head to penetrate his armor. now that said, it could just be the armor, but my question is, did zerebubuth catch a punch from guyver?

 

and now there is derzerb. in the fight, he totally overpowered guyver. in the ova, when the unit was in control, the unit overpowered derzerb, again, it seemed to falter until the control medal shined and then he got stronger. then threw derzerb out a window. 

 

so in a normal situation fight,  a 60x derzerb was stronger than a 100x guyver.

 

is my math correct?

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Guyver 1 only struggled with a Gregole once, it was also only minutes after bonding for the first time. So it's questionable if it was even fully charged compared to how a Guyver is after being dormant in the boost dimension for awhile and then activated by a host (ref Sho's fight with the bats and Chaos Aptom). 

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Can I just say, I so much love that you guys took my thread seriously. Thanks and sorry I wasn't here for most of it.

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I think only certain Hyper Zoanoid types with enhanced strength and Zoalords are able to match a Bio Boosted human in terms of sherr brute strength.

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How about stuff like the vampires, vampire hybrids and shape shifting wolves from Twilight?  I know that some of you are gonna sulk,  but compared to even Hellsing,  Twilight vampires are virtually indestructible, with the biggest enemies being true werewolves and other vampires.  Only question is how strong are they compared to like a Hyper Zoanoid or a Guyver?

https://twilightsaga.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire

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They would have to be pretty much immortal to survive a high frequency blade or pressure cannon, let alone a megasmasher, but im no expert on Twilight lore.

In my opinion, a Werewolf would be on par with a Ramotith type Zoanoid at best. Murakami suggests the stories of legend like such were in fact random occurrences of the original Zoanoid blood line popping up in the genepool. And original Zoanoid forms were improved on by Chronos.

Putting Vampires on par with Werewolves would logically conclude the guyver easily defeating them. Perhaps an overpowered Werewolf/Vampire from a different story would be a better match.

But it's all open to opinion!

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In the link I provided, the Twilight vampires are pretty much immortal, and even the shape-shifters (which are on par with the vampires in terms of strength and speed) can do some major damage to most Zoanoids in my opinion, even hypers.  Of course, I'm writing a Guyver/Twilight crossover that features original characters that are part human, part vampire, including one that's Aptom's love interest.

Also, the vampires in Twilight produce a type of venom that can be either poisonous or helpful to Zoaforms, depending on your POV.

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immortal only means they don't tend to die, not that they can't die. in fact all you really need to do is sever their head from the body which the guyver can do easily. I am sure there are many other methods you could use to kill them, I am just going off what I remember from the film.

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Twilight vampires are more durable in the books than the films.  Melissa Rosenburg took a lot of liberties with the first three films, which is probably part of why Stephanie Meyer was a producer of the Breaking Dawn films.  And in the books they can survive decapitation.

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Being totally dismembered and set ablaze.

I'm also asking because I'm thinking of taking one of my Twilight fan fic characters and incorporating a version of her in a Guyver fan fic story.

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I notice they have no origin and no explanation for why they are so absurdly overpowered.

Meyer is a really lazy writer, isn't she? Four novels and so little world building?

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It's all about the relationships! these books are surely written for girls , right?

Anyway... we would need to know how fast they are and how strong they are, because any character in guyver is capable of dismembering a human and burning them, it becomes a matter of who is quicker to the kill.

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Pretty hard for anything for sure aside from another vampire, vampire hybrid or shape shifting wolf to dismember a Twilight vampire rapidly enough to consume them by fire (they can reattach limbs without loss of function and instantly heal).  Their skin and non-liquid tissues are also diamond hard.  A Guyver's sonic blade can maybe cut though a vampire, but one, one Guyver won't be enough for sure to quickly dismember a vampire (it usually takes several vampires or shape shifters for the issue mentioned of being able to quickly reattach limbs), and two, the venom based body fluids could be as corrosive as the anti-Guyver enzyme or Zerebuth's acid.  Meaning a Guyver could possibly take damage from hacking off an arm or a leg, or decapitating one or bisecting one.

I did link earlier to the Vampire section on the Twilight wiki.  This is also a problem with comparing creatures from two different universes.  And it's not like comparing like my 3/4 vampire hybrid Naomi (a fan fic character) to Tori Vega from Victorious, who is a normal teenage girl, or comparing Tori to Shizu after she is Zoaformed into Griselda.  Here. we're talking about multiple fantasy creatures from two different canonical worlds that aren't in any way connected in real life.

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Ok I read some of the article and it seems like mental masturbation to me. They are so stupidly overpowered they don't make for good narrative. I personally wouldn't combine them with guyver, as guyver is fairly well written.
If one of them was pitted against the guyver, they would crush guyver in an instant. guyver has been seen to react fast, but it's physical movement speed is limited.  also, a guyver's strength is 100 times that of a human whereas these living statues are 1000 times stronger than a human. one of them, vs a guyver, is like looking at guyver vs ramotith.

There's no indication that the physical strength of a gigantic is increased by any great amount, but it has the barrier, and it has more powerful weaponry. I didn't read any part in the article that indicated the 'venom' is particularly corrosive. zerbebuth's corrosives are insane, able to melt through cement and steel if I remember correctly. it was harmful to guyver but not by too much. In the tv series, it was shown to melt the guyvers high frequency sword but I think that was wrong because otherwise they would have used that for all the enzyme type zoanoids instead of the disassembly ezyme.  I believe the gigantic could dismember one of them , but it might be difficult. But the head beam at full power has been known to vaporise concrete, so I think that would work.

I think it may be useful to compare one of those walking statues to a zoalord. I think that is the right sort of level to put them at.

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To be fair, Aptom in his Omega Blast form been compared to a Zoaloard (and has been the only non-Guyver to kill one), and the Gigantic and Gigantic Exceed were created by Sho to overpower Zoalords in one on one combat. 

But by what you're saying, even a vampire hybrid could easily kick a basic Guyver's ass with little effort, and would probably make life extremely tough for Zoalords?  At least in my story the vampires and such have sided with the likes of Sho, Aptom and Agito even.

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